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[Music]

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these days so many podcast hosts just

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highersidechats.com

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enjoy

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in the 1930s president franklin delano

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roosevelt addressed the nation through a

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series of radio broadcasts known as the

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fireside chats his aim was to reassure

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the common man that our society would

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recover from its troubled times well

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we're far from 1930 and i deal with a

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different kind of fire for a new era of

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worldly frustration we offer a fresh

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conversation i'm greg carlwood and these

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are the higher side chats

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goodness gracious great balls of fire

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people from sunny san diego i'm greg

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carlwood and in contrast to the highly

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controlled and manipulated mono

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narratives of today's news networks

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there was once a time when the world

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saved room for mysteries and high

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strangeness

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maybe the media mind control machine was

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less sophisticated maybe it didn't

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realize its full power but in the

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pre-internet age of the mid 90s i recall

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seeing high strangeness stories and news

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segments on daytime tv right alongside

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everything else

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and one of those strange segments that

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caught my attention in between ufo

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sightings and tales of the bermuda

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triangle was spontaneous human

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combustion and despite interest in most

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other 40 and phenomena carrying on

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something happened with spontaneous

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human combustion where it just seemed to

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go away

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which could easily lead one to conclude

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that the mystery is solved or that it

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just stopped happening and the reality

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dear listener is that neither are true

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well today we have the world's leading

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authority and premier expert in shc mr

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larry e arnold after leaving lafayette

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college and having a brief career in

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electrical engineering larry founded

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paris science international in 1976 to

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pursue the exploration of 14 anomalies

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and consciousness he has authored three

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books entitled the parapsychological

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impact of the accident at three mile

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island the reiki handbook and ablaze the

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mysterious fires of spontaneous human

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combustion a nearly 500-page masterwork

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that covers all known cases and all

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possible angles as to what could be the

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source of people mysteriously being

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reduced to a pile of ash from the inside

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out he has been a guest on hundreds of

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radio and internet radio programs

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including howard stern the art bell show

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and multiple episodes of coast to coast

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and now he reaches a new milestone with

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thc added to the resume larry let's get

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into it the author of ablaze para

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science international investigator and

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serious sleuth of spontaneous human

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combustion larry e arnold welcome to the

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higher side

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oh greg we are delighted with that

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introduction bless your heart we're

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going to hire you as our promotional

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person

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it is a delight and an honor to be with

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you and your listeners this should be a

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fascinating two hours of exploring

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something that is truly bizarre

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truly fascinating truly horrific

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and as you pointed out in your kind

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introduction for many people they think

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they've explained it away and we're

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going to suggest that that is a

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misperception

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yes absolutely i am psyched for this

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and it's absolutely true that the

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interest seemed to fizzle out the

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coverage of it seemed to fizzle out but

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the mystery still remains

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and

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as a show topic

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i was trying to get creative and i

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started looking around i found your book

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and then i saw the images of these

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people reduced to ash

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and maybe just a head or an unaffected

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limb just sitting there next to a pile

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of ash they are hard images to look at

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but that really re-triggered the mystery

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to me and now that i'm older from when i

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saw this stuff in the mid 90s i realized

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explanations like a person smoking a

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cigarette and bed don't even make sense

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bodies are actually pretty hard to burn

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especially in a short time in open air

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all the way down through the bone so i

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am more perplexed than i was and i am

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impressed with how much you know about

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this but because it is such an odd niche

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in the fortion soup how did this subject

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end up becoming your forte

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you mentioned greg that you were exposed

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to the subject of sponcom in the 1980s

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we predate you a bit we first learned

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about it in junior high school back in

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the early 60s so you can do the math and

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how old we are

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i read a book titled stranger than

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science by frank edwards a newspaper

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reporter and in that book he had a

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chapter about the cinder woman a lady

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named mary reeser

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who died

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by means quite unusual

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st petersburg florida

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and the night of july 1 july 2 1951

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and he said her death by fire fit the

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classic definition of spontaneous human

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combustion

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never forgot about reading that chapter

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we gave a report to our classmates about

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it and of course eyebrows were raised

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when we came through college we still

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did not have any professors who knew

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anything about it when we would ask them

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about it

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after working a couple years in the

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electrical engineering profession we

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decided to turn our attention back to

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spontaneous combustion and a whole field

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of other floridian phenomenon

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lots of people at that time in the early

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70s were investigating ufos and cryptids

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but we couldn't find anybody who was

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writing much about this thing that we

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read about in junior high school called

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spontaneous human combustion

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we decided to go to the library of

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congress down in d.c to see if he could

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find original newspaper clips from 1951

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about the research case to see if frank

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edwards had reported the situation

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accurately

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or if he had made up the story to sell a

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couple extra paperback books

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what we discovered at the library of

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congress and following through reels of

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microfilm was that in 1951

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the officials in saint petersburg

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florida were indeed mystified genuinely

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perplexed by the fire that consumed

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business freezer's body

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she was a widow who was a pennsylvania

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native and it recently moved to saint

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pete florida

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planning to move back to pennsylvania

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her body weighed about a 160

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570 pounds

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but overnight in early july of 1951 that

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body was reduced to a few pounds of

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ashen rubble

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one foot still found encased in a satin

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slipper

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a few pieces of calcine vertebrae and

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what was said at the time by the first

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responders to be her head shrunk into

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to

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the human body but fire would normally

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require a crematorium

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operating under controlled scientific

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conditions at temperatures exceeding

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2000 degrees fahrenheit for a couple of

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hours

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if those conditions had been present in

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mrs reese's apartment in saint pete in

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1951

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not only would her body and the chair in

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which she was last known to be seated

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been consumed but the entire apartment

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building would have burned to the ground

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clearly that was not the case

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so there was a genuine perplexing

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mystery that baffled the local

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investigators the local fire officials

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and the saint petersburg police

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department

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we had the privilege of speaking to two

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of the first responders

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walter tipton

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who was assigned on his first day as a

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state police officer to secure the

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premises while the investigation of mary

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wieser's death occurred inside the

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apartment

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he told us that the officials were

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absolutely bum-fuddled they had no

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conscious clue as to how mrs reezer

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could have burned herself so completely

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in an environment that was otherwise

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largely devoid of the kind of heat and

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flame damage that one would have

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anticipated

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the other

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first responder to whom we had the

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privilege to speak was

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nelson aters one of the two firemen who

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responded to the fire call and actually

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help shovel her ashes out of her

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apartment

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he told us in a lengthy interview that

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to the best of his knowledge

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this had to be a case

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that would be defined

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as spontaneous human combustion

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in his

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decades

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as a fire responder a firefighter in

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saint pete he had never before nor ever

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since

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been called a fatal fire scene that in

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any way remotely resembled the amazing

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fire scene that mrs rieser left behind

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in the morning of july 2 1951

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we also had the opportunity in our

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investigation to interview dr wilton

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marion frogman a renowned forensic

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anthropologist who happened to be

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vacationing in saint pete at that time

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he heard about the case took a personal

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and professional interest in it because

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he had done in his laboratory

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experiments

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studies on the effects of fire on

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various

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cadavers human and animal

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he knew what to expect how much he was

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required to incinerate a body to ash and

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powder

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so the conditions that he was led to

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believe happened to mrs reese's

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apartment were completely baffling to

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him

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he actually told us and wrote that if he

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had not studied the case and spoken to

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the experts at the scene at that time

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it reminded him of something that was

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macarthur something superstitious

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something that would have been

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attributable to superstition back in the

283
00:10:40,470 --> 00:10:38,480
middle ages because such a piracy should

284
00:10:42,630 --> 00:10:40,480
not occur

285
00:10:44,470 --> 00:10:42,640
he was utterly perplexed not only by the

286
00:10:46,710 --> 00:10:44,480
degree of destruction to mrs reese's

287
00:10:49,829 --> 00:10:46,720
body but as we intimated the

288
00:10:51,350 --> 00:10:49,839
localization of the apparent high heat

289
00:10:53,590 --> 00:10:51,360
that failed to incinerate not only

290
00:10:55,910 --> 00:10:53,600
stacks of newspaper but also

291
00:10:58,389 --> 00:10:55,920
david linen that was only inches away

292
00:11:00,550 --> 00:10:58,399
from mrs reese's sitting chair in her

293
00:11:02,069 --> 00:11:00,560
apartment

294
00:11:04,710 --> 00:11:02,079
there was also the absence of the

295
00:11:06,630 --> 00:11:04,720
noxious odor of burned human flesh in

296
00:11:09,269 --> 00:11:06,640
fact the first responders told us that

297
00:11:10,710 --> 00:11:09,279
the aroma in mr jesus's apartment had a

298
00:11:12,829 --> 00:11:10,720
sweet and vital and

299
00:11:14,470 --> 00:11:12,839
perfume-like

300
00:11:16,949 --> 00:11:14,480
presence

301
00:11:19,590 --> 00:11:16,959
which and that is very odd right because

302
00:11:21,829 --> 00:11:19,600
firefighters will tell you the smell of

303
00:11:24,550 --> 00:11:21,839
burning flesh is definitely not

304
00:11:27,350 --> 00:11:24,560
something you miss so for it to not be

305
00:11:29,350 --> 00:11:27,360
present in these sorts of cases

306
00:11:32,470 --> 00:11:29,360
quite odd right

307
00:11:34,069 --> 00:11:32,480
quite odd extremely odd

308
00:11:36,389 --> 00:11:34,079
in the many cases that we have had the

309
00:11:38,949 --> 00:11:36,399
privilege to research to document and to

310
00:11:41,030 --> 00:11:38,959
speak to the first responders oftentimes

311
00:11:42,389 --> 00:11:41,040
in cases that fit the classic definition

312
00:11:43,829 --> 00:11:42,399
of spontaneous

313
00:11:45,990 --> 00:11:43,839
human combustion

314
00:11:48,790 --> 00:11:46,000
either we are told there is no odor of

315
00:11:51,670 --> 00:11:48,800
burned flesh no odor at all

316
00:11:52,710 --> 00:11:51,680
or conversely a sweet perfume like

317
00:11:56,470 --> 00:11:52,720
redolent

318
00:11:59,110 --> 00:11:56,480
scent at the fire scene hmm this is

319
00:11:59,910 --> 00:11:59,120
atypical of a conventional fatal fire

320
00:12:02,069 --> 00:11:59,920
scene

321
00:12:03,829 --> 00:12:02,079
as it is every case that we have studied

322
00:12:05,829 --> 00:12:03,839
that fits the definition of classic

323
00:12:07,990 --> 00:12:05,839
spontaneous human combustion which

324
00:12:11,590 --> 00:12:08,000
exactly is deaths

325
00:12:12,870 --> 00:12:11,600
it is the blistering smoking or burning

326
00:12:16,150 --> 00:12:12,880
of flesh

327
00:12:20,389 --> 00:12:16,160
in the absence of a known identifiable

328
00:12:22,150 --> 00:12:20,399
nearby external burn agent

329
00:12:26,230 --> 00:12:22,160
that is that the first responders can

330
00:12:28,949 --> 00:12:26,240
rule out contact with an open flame

331
00:12:30,949 --> 00:12:28,959
the absence of caustic chemicals

332
00:12:32,150 --> 00:12:30,959
no radioactive material like the fire

333
00:12:35,030 --> 00:12:32,160
scene

334
00:12:38,069 --> 00:12:35,040
no evidence of high amperage electricity

335
00:12:40,150 --> 00:12:38,079
and no nearby radiant heat source

336
00:12:42,310 --> 00:12:40,160
if you can rule out the existence of

337
00:12:44,629 --> 00:12:42,320
those five criteria

338
00:12:46,550 --> 00:12:44,639
then by definition if you have a

339
00:12:48,389 --> 00:12:46,560
incinerated body

340
00:12:50,710 --> 00:12:48,399
you have to consider what history has

341
00:12:52,550 --> 00:12:50,720
called spontaneous human combustion what

342
00:12:57,750 --> 00:12:52,560
we prefer to term

343
00:13:02,949 --> 00:13:00,710
yes and sorry to take you off your role

344
00:13:04,230 --> 00:13:02,959
with profiling that initial case but

345
00:13:08,310 --> 00:13:04,240
that smell

346
00:13:10,550 --> 00:13:08,320
factor is just such a curiosity and i

347
00:13:11,509 --> 00:13:10,560
wanted to before we got too deep into

348
00:13:13,910 --> 00:13:11,519
this

349
00:13:16,550 --> 00:13:13,920
compare spontaneous human combustion

350
00:13:19,590 --> 00:13:16,560
with other types of fire fatalities or

351
00:13:22,550 --> 00:13:19,600
even how a crematorium processes a body

352
00:13:25,590 --> 00:13:22,560
so people can really understand how

353
00:13:27,990 --> 00:13:25,600
different these cases truly are

354
00:13:30,310 --> 00:13:28,000
that is a great avenue to pursue at this

355
00:13:33,190 --> 00:13:30,320
point and we're happy to do that but we

356
00:13:35,350 --> 00:13:33,200
began our investigation of

357
00:13:37,670 --> 00:13:35,360
fire phenomena back in the 60s there

358
00:13:39,829 --> 00:13:37,680
were three classes of burn injury first

359
00:13:42,470 --> 00:13:39,839
second and third first degree was when

360
00:13:45,030 --> 00:13:42,480
the skin is reddened mild sunburn for

361
00:13:48,550 --> 00:13:45,040
example a second degree burn was when

362
00:13:50,310 --> 00:13:48,560
the skin actually blistered a or severe

363
00:13:52,310 --> 00:13:50,320
sunburn if you will

364
00:13:53,990 --> 00:13:52,320
and third degree was everything else

365
00:13:55,269 --> 00:13:54,000
which is basically scarring and nerve

366
00:13:57,750 --> 00:13:55,279
damage

367
00:14:00,150 --> 00:13:57,760
more recently there has been a category

368
00:14:02,870 --> 00:14:00,160
four to be burned which

369
00:14:06,230 --> 00:14:02,880
is designating when the underlying skin

370
00:14:08,150 --> 00:14:06,240
and muscle tissue was severely burned

371
00:14:11,189 --> 00:14:08,160
and now some fire scientists are

372
00:14:12,550 --> 00:14:11,199
labeling a fifth and six degree burn

373
00:14:15,030 --> 00:14:12,560
even those

374
00:14:17,829 --> 00:14:15,040
categories which represent the most

375
00:14:19,030 --> 00:14:17,839
severe burn injury that fire science is

376
00:14:21,590 --> 00:14:19,040
presently

377
00:14:24,629 --> 00:14:21,600
readily and willing to recognize

378
00:14:26,230 --> 00:14:24,639
does not define classic human combustion

379
00:14:29,269 --> 00:14:26,240
fire scenes

380
00:14:30,389 --> 00:14:29,279
these are if you will now a seventh

381
00:14:31,910 --> 00:14:30,399
degree

382
00:14:34,550 --> 00:14:31,920
burn injury

383
00:14:36,870 --> 00:14:34,560
where the injury the damage to the body

384
00:14:38,790 --> 00:14:36,880
literally extends deep into the bone

385
00:14:41,829 --> 00:14:38,800
itself to the extent of the bone is

386
00:14:43,590 --> 00:14:41,839
calcine and charge of powder

387
00:14:45,590 --> 00:14:43,600
that was pretty much the case with mrs

388
00:14:47,269 --> 00:14:45,600
reserve and it is very much the case for

389
00:14:50,069 --> 00:14:47,279
several other cases that we'll be happy

390
00:14:53,269 --> 00:14:50,079
to describe to you in detail

391
00:14:56,150 --> 00:14:53,279
as we said in a crematorium process the

392
00:14:58,550 --> 00:14:56,160
retort temperature is usually at 22 to

393
00:15:01,269 --> 00:14:58,560
2400 degrees fahrenheit for an hour and

394
00:15:03,350 --> 00:15:01,279
a half two and a half hours

395
00:15:05,990 --> 00:15:03,360
to understand how hot that temperature

396
00:15:08,710 --> 00:15:06,000
is lava flowing from a volcano

397
00:15:10,790 --> 00:15:08,720
is about 2 000 degrees fahrenheit so

398
00:15:11,990 --> 00:15:10,800
we're talking temperatures higher than

399
00:15:13,910 --> 00:15:12,000
or cause

400
00:15:15,430 --> 00:15:13,920
rock to become molten

401
00:15:18,870 --> 00:15:15,440
and even that

402
00:15:22,389 --> 00:15:18,880
process in a crematorium doesn't

403
00:15:23,670 --> 00:15:22,399
dustify the bones or all the bones

404
00:15:25,430 --> 00:15:23,680
right

405
00:15:27,829 --> 00:15:25,440
you're quite correct greg yeah what is

406
00:15:30,629 --> 00:15:27,839
right now to the crematorium retort are

407
00:15:32,550 --> 00:15:30,639
not only ashes but bone fragments

408
00:15:34,949 --> 00:15:32,560
those bone fragments are then put in a

409
00:15:37,590 --> 00:15:34,959
device called a cremulator fancy name

410
00:15:40,069 --> 00:15:37,600
for bone binder and the bone fragments

411
00:15:41,990 --> 00:15:40,079
are ground physically to powder that is

412
00:15:44,470 --> 00:15:42,000
placed in the urn to be handed over to

413
00:15:46,470 --> 00:15:44,480
the next skin

414
00:15:50,069 --> 00:15:46,480
in classic cases of

415
00:15:53,030 --> 00:15:50,079
sudden human cremation shc the bone

416
00:15:55,269 --> 00:15:53,040
itself is calcined to powder that was

417
00:15:57,430 --> 00:15:55,279
the case with mrs reserve in the case of

418
00:15:59,829 --> 00:15:57,440
dr bentley the case of george mott and

419
00:16:01,829 --> 00:15:59,839
many others that we can go into depth

420
00:16:03,670 --> 00:16:01,839
with you in the next hour and a half two

421
00:16:06,870 --> 00:16:03,680
hours

422
00:16:10,949 --> 00:16:06,880
these incinerations are fearsome they

423
00:16:13,350 --> 00:16:10,959
are intense and they are complete

424
00:16:16,150 --> 00:16:13,360
so complete that if a portion of the

425
00:16:19,509 --> 00:16:16,160
human anatomy were not left at the fire

426
00:16:22,870 --> 00:16:19,519
scene the fire responder first responder

427
00:16:24,870 --> 00:16:22,880
a fire investigator and arson scientist

428
00:16:27,829 --> 00:16:24,880
would probably not even suspect that a

429
00:16:29,910 --> 00:16:27,839
human was involved at these fire scenes

430
00:16:32,870 --> 00:16:29,920
one of the characteristics that defines

431
00:16:34,790 --> 00:16:32,880
classic shc is that usually there is an

432
00:16:37,110 --> 00:16:34,800
extremity or two

433
00:16:38,870 --> 00:16:37,120
clearly identifiable as a human body

434
00:16:41,030 --> 00:16:38,880
part that is left

435
00:16:43,590 --> 00:16:41,040
and not consumed to powder

436
00:16:45,749 --> 00:16:43,600
so in the research case you had the head

437
00:16:47,749 --> 00:16:45,759
a few pieces of calcium vertebrae and

438
00:16:50,230 --> 00:16:47,759
one foot

439
00:16:52,870 --> 00:16:50,240
in other cases maybe a lower leg or the

440
00:16:54,710 --> 00:16:52,880
forearms or the hands are left intact

441
00:16:58,870 --> 00:16:54,720
but the center part of the body the

442
00:17:02,550 --> 00:16:58,880
torso the greatest body mass is consumed

443
00:17:08,069 --> 00:17:05,829
which might be a potential clue as to

444
00:17:10,710 --> 00:17:08,079
where in the body the fire starts it

445
00:17:13,590 --> 00:17:10,720
doesn't seem to be the limbs and those

446
00:17:15,590 --> 00:17:13,600
images are really grotesque to see a

447
00:17:16,470 --> 00:17:15,600
foot in a slipper

448
00:17:20,150 --> 00:17:16,480
or

449
00:17:22,230 --> 00:17:20,160
a whole arm just on a pile of ash it's

450
00:17:24,949 --> 00:17:22,240
you know not necessarily pleasant to see

451
00:17:26,630 --> 00:17:24,959
but it is mysterious and maybe it does

452
00:17:27,990 --> 00:17:26,640
come from the

453
00:17:29,909 --> 00:17:28,000
center mass

454
00:17:33,350 --> 00:17:29,919
we believe that to be the case in many

455
00:17:34,230 --> 00:17:33,360
instances of classic shc yes indeed greg

456
00:17:36,789 --> 00:17:34,240
huh

457
00:17:38,710 --> 00:17:36,799
and obviously we'll get into uh all the

458
00:17:41,110 --> 00:17:38,720
possible theories but

459
00:17:43,510 --> 00:17:41,120
the thing that really

460
00:17:46,070 --> 00:17:43,520
kept me interested in this as i started

461
00:17:48,549 --> 00:17:46,080
to go down the rabbit hole again was

462
00:17:52,789 --> 00:17:48,559
learning that we do have cases of

463
00:17:54,470 --> 00:17:52,799
survivors i had no idea but you got to

464
00:17:56,470 --> 00:17:54,480
tell people about one of these cases

465
00:17:58,470 --> 00:17:56,480
because it really highlights how weird

466
00:18:01,350 --> 00:17:58,480
and mysterious this is

467
00:18:03,430 --> 00:18:01,360
uh absolutely so this is a subset of

468
00:18:06,390 --> 00:18:03,440
spontaneous human combustion that the

469
00:18:08,789 --> 00:18:06,400
naysayers the bunkers really don't like

470
00:18:10,870 --> 00:18:08,799
to deal with because if you accept the

471
00:18:13,830 --> 00:18:10,880
testimony of the people that we have

472
00:18:16,470 --> 00:18:13,840
interviewed at great length who say they

473
00:18:17,909 --> 00:18:16,480
have experienced partial spontaneous

474
00:18:19,990 --> 00:18:17,919
human combustion

475
00:18:22,549 --> 00:18:20,000
the debunker has to basically call them

476
00:18:24,789 --> 00:18:22,559
a liar and that raises some interesting

477
00:18:27,270 --> 00:18:24,799
aspects

478
00:18:29,750 --> 00:18:27,280
the first survivor case that we had the

479
00:18:32,070 --> 00:18:29,760
opportunity to document in depth

480
00:18:33,909 --> 00:18:32,080
occurred to jack angel a traveling

481
00:18:36,230 --> 00:18:33,919
salesman

482
00:18:39,350 --> 00:18:36,240
who used his motorhome as a traveling

483
00:18:40,950 --> 00:18:39,360
showroom in november of 1974 he was in

484
00:18:44,150 --> 00:18:40,960
savannah georgia

485
00:18:46,710 --> 00:18:44,160
planning to meet with a potential client

486
00:18:49,430 --> 00:18:46,720
parked his motor home one evening in the

487
00:18:51,590 --> 00:18:49,440
parking lot at the ramada inn in

488
00:18:53,590 --> 00:18:51,600
savannah georgia went to sleep in his

489
00:18:54,950 --> 00:18:53,600
motorhome expecting to awaken the next

490
00:18:58,950 --> 00:18:54,960
morning have breakfast and meet with

491
00:19:00,390 --> 00:18:58,960
this client or somebody hopefully

492
00:19:03,430 --> 00:19:00,400
he missed the appointment because he

493
00:19:05,750 --> 00:19:03,440
slept through it when he did come to

494
00:19:07,669 --> 00:19:05,760
crunch's awakened state

495
00:19:09,909 --> 00:19:07,679
he noticed that his right forearm had

496
00:19:11,750 --> 00:19:09,919
been burned black through the bone he

497
00:19:13,990 --> 00:19:11,760
told us

498
00:19:15,830 --> 00:19:14,000
and yet the sheets that he laid on the

499
00:19:17,669 --> 00:19:15,840
pajamas that he wore

500
00:19:21,110 --> 00:19:17,679
neither

501
00:19:26,630 --> 00:19:24,150
he got himself up dressed exited the

502
00:19:27,830 --> 00:19:26,640
motorhome entered the ramada inn and did

503
00:19:29,990 --> 00:19:27,840
something that he told us was

504
00:19:32,390 --> 00:19:30,000
uncharacteristic for himself

505
00:19:34,230 --> 00:19:32,400
and then lost consciousness when he

506
00:19:37,590 --> 00:19:34,240
regained consciousness he found himself

507
00:19:40,310 --> 00:19:37,600
surrounded by a team of physicians

508
00:19:42,150 --> 00:19:40,320
at the savannah general hospital all of

509
00:19:44,870 --> 00:19:42,160
whom were marveling about how their

510
00:19:46,710 --> 00:19:44,880
patient had burned himself to the extent

511
00:19:49,270 --> 00:19:46,720
that he had in the way that seemed to

512
00:19:51,430 --> 00:19:49,280
present to them

513
00:19:54,390 --> 00:19:51,440
we subsequently met with not only jack

514
00:19:56,789 --> 00:19:54,400
angel but both of the atlanta-based

515
00:19:58,549 --> 00:19:56,799
attorneys who took upon the case on the

516
00:20:00,870 --> 00:19:58,559
basis that something had malfunctioned

517
00:20:03,590 --> 00:20:00,880
in the motorhome to cause burns so

518
00:20:05,830 --> 00:20:03,600
severe to jack angel's right forearm

519
00:20:07,110 --> 00:20:05,840
and indeed also produced damage to his

520
00:20:09,190 --> 00:20:07,120
vertebrae

521
00:20:11,190 --> 00:20:09,200
the disc in the spinal column

522
00:20:13,350 --> 00:20:11,200
he had also burned injuries and an

523
00:20:15,190 --> 00:20:13,360
explosive type burn injury in his right

524
00:20:17,430 --> 00:20:15,200
chest and also

525
00:20:18,950 --> 00:20:17,440
burn damage in his groin and elsewhere

526
00:20:21,750 --> 00:20:18,960
on his body

527
00:20:25,270 --> 00:20:21,760
keep in mind all this occurred without

528
00:20:26,870 --> 00:20:25,280
any fire damage to his pajamas or to the

529
00:20:29,190 --> 00:20:26,880
bedding material on which he slept in

530
00:20:31,430 --> 00:20:29,200
his motorhome

531
00:20:33,110 --> 00:20:31,440
the motorhome was basically torn down to

532
00:20:35,270 --> 00:20:33,120
the frame

533
00:20:36,870 --> 00:20:35,280
looking for an external cause some

534
00:20:39,029 --> 00:20:36,880
malfunctioned in the motorhome that

535
00:20:41,430 --> 00:20:39,039
could be attributable to jax burn

536
00:20:42,950 --> 00:20:41,440
injuries

537
00:20:44,230 --> 00:20:42,960
the two

538
00:20:46,470 --> 00:20:44,240
attorneys

539
00:20:48,310 --> 00:20:46,480
in georgia had a lot of writing on this

540
00:20:50,149 --> 00:20:48,320
case it was a potentially three million

541
00:20:52,149 --> 00:20:50,159
dollar lawsuit that's a fair chunk of

542
00:20:54,230 --> 00:20:52,159
money back in the 70s

543
00:20:56,230 --> 00:20:54,240
they struggled diligently they told us

544
00:20:58,950 --> 00:20:56,240
to find an external ignition that could

545
00:21:00,870 --> 00:20:58,960
have blamed jack's injuries they could

546
00:21:02,549 --> 00:21:00,880
not come up with one

547
00:21:05,270 --> 00:21:02,559
the bunkers are quick to say that when

548
00:21:07,350 --> 00:21:05,280
jack scolded himself on a hot water

549
00:21:08,870 --> 00:21:07,360
malfunction or water pump in his

550
00:21:10,789 --> 00:21:08,880
motorhome

551
00:21:12,470 --> 00:21:10,799
those devices were investigated and

552
00:21:14,710 --> 00:21:12,480
found not to be attributable or

553
00:21:17,590 --> 00:21:14,720
connected to the burns that jack angel's

554
00:21:19,750 --> 00:21:17,600
body exhibited

555
00:21:22,149 --> 00:21:19,760
we spoke to several motorhome

556
00:21:23,830 --> 00:21:22,159
technicians all of whom told us that in

557
00:21:25,669 --> 00:21:23,840
that motorhome

558
00:21:28,630 --> 00:21:25,679
a water pump could not have caused that

559
00:21:30,789 --> 00:21:28,640
kind of a burn injury jack's body

560
00:21:33,110 --> 00:21:30,799
in fact the medical practitioners who

561
00:21:35,190 --> 00:21:33,120
attended to jack's injuries

562
00:21:37,350 --> 00:21:35,200
wrote on his medical documents which we

563
00:21:38,310 --> 00:21:37,360
have on file that the burns were quote

564
00:21:39,510 --> 00:21:38,320
unquote

565
00:21:42,549 --> 00:21:39,520
internal

566
00:21:45,909 --> 00:21:42,559
in origin

567
00:21:50,149 --> 00:21:45,919
wow that by medical definition says that

568
00:21:52,870 --> 00:21:50,159
jack angel burned from the inside out

569
00:21:54,630 --> 00:21:52,880
compounded that the attorneys could find

570
00:21:56,230 --> 00:21:54,640
and the engineers that they hired could

571
00:21:58,470 --> 00:21:56,240
find no

572
00:21:59,909 --> 00:21:58,480
source in the motorhome itself there was

573
00:22:01,669 --> 00:21:59,919
no lightning

574
00:22:04,390 --> 00:22:01,679
at the time that would

575
00:22:07,750 --> 00:22:04,400
could explain the burn injuries

576
00:22:09,750 --> 00:22:07,760
no mechanical electrical plumbing hot

577
00:22:11,669 --> 00:22:09,760
water issues in the motorhome that they

578
00:22:13,029 --> 00:22:11,679
could identify that could explain jack's

579
00:22:15,750 --> 00:22:13,039
injuries

580
00:22:17,909 --> 00:22:15,760
all this tells us that jack angel

581
00:22:20,710 --> 00:22:17,919
experienced as he himself admitted to us

582
00:22:23,270 --> 00:22:20,720
he had to include himself that he was a

583
00:22:25,590 --> 00:22:23,280
victim of and survivor of that's

584
00:22:27,510 --> 00:22:25,600
incredibly rare

585
00:22:31,830 --> 00:22:27,520
phenomenon

586
00:22:35,110 --> 00:22:31,840
of spontaneous human combustion

587
00:22:37,830 --> 00:22:35,120
i do love that account because

588
00:22:40,710 --> 00:22:37,840
it just seems like it happened randomly

589
00:22:42,310 --> 00:22:40,720
he didn't even feel much he just kind of

590
00:22:44,470 --> 00:22:42,320
noticed his arm was burnt and it was

591
00:22:47,590 --> 00:22:44,480
burnt so badly that it had to be

592
00:22:49,990 --> 00:22:47,600
amputated from the forearm down

593
00:22:53,190 --> 00:22:50,000
and he had all these other weird

594
00:22:55,750 --> 00:22:53,200
burn spots in his body and even the

595
00:22:57,830 --> 00:22:55,760
medical report says internal in nature i

596
00:22:58,870 --> 00:22:57,840
don't know what else a person needs to

597
00:23:00,870 --> 00:22:58,880
know

598
00:23:02,390 --> 00:23:00,880
something's going on here and now that

599
00:23:04,789 --> 00:23:02,400
we really got people scratching their

600
00:23:07,110 --> 00:23:04,799
heads i guess i would ask how often does

601
00:23:10,390 --> 00:23:07,120
this happen how many cases do we know

602
00:23:12,710 --> 00:23:10,400
about and how far back can we take it

603
00:23:14,549 --> 00:23:12,720
a provocative question and we're going

604
00:23:17,430 --> 00:23:14,559
to give you what we hope is an equally

605
00:23:20,549 --> 00:23:17,440
provocative answer

606
00:23:23,590 --> 00:23:20,559
in our database we have identified some

607
00:23:26,149 --> 00:23:23,600
500 cases now that fit the definition of

608
00:23:28,470 --> 00:23:26,159
spontaneous human combustion

609
00:23:29,990 --> 00:23:28,480
most of those cases are fatal

610
00:23:32,470 --> 00:23:30,000
but we do have

611
00:23:35,270 --> 00:23:32,480
now about two dozen cases of

612
00:23:40,310 --> 00:23:37,909
when this happens is quite random in

613
00:23:42,310 --> 00:23:40,320
most cases it appears

614
00:23:44,870 --> 00:23:42,320
which makes it all the more mystifying

615
00:23:47,669 --> 00:23:44,880
and in terms of science difficult to

616
00:23:49,510 --> 00:23:47,679
quantify and to predict because

617
00:23:52,789 --> 00:23:49,520
we have yet to find

618
00:23:55,430 --> 00:23:52,799
any particular set of commonalities

619
00:23:58,390 --> 00:23:55,440
any set of factors that are

620
00:24:00,470 --> 00:23:58,400
present in the database that would allow

621
00:24:02,630 --> 00:24:00,480
one to predict when and where these

622
00:24:04,310 --> 00:24:02,640
cases are likely to happen with one

623
00:24:05,909 --> 00:24:04,320
exception and we can get to that later

624
00:24:08,630 --> 00:24:05,919
perhaps in the second hour it's quite

625
00:24:12,630 --> 00:24:10,549
the cases

626
00:24:14,630 --> 00:24:12,640
at one time did tend to focus on a

627
00:24:18,630 --> 00:24:14,640
33-year cycle

628
00:24:22,789 --> 00:24:18,640
1938 had a collection of them 1905 back

629
00:24:25,190 --> 00:24:22,799
then the preceding set was in 1870 1871

630
00:24:27,110 --> 00:24:25,200
there was a cluster of cases

631
00:24:29,430 --> 00:24:27,120
that hasn't followed two to the present

632
00:24:30,830 --> 00:24:29,440
time so either something changed that

633
00:24:32,789 --> 00:24:30,840
33-year

634
00:24:34,950 --> 00:24:32,799
periodicity that we were able to

635
00:24:36,870 --> 00:24:34,960
identify at one time

636
00:24:39,269 --> 00:24:36,880
or there are cases that have been

637
00:24:41,190 --> 00:24:39,279
covered up and we haven't heard about

638
00:24:43,269 --> 00:24:41,200
that has happened

639
00:24:44,470 --> 00:24:43,279
as to how long the phenomenon has been

640
00:24:46,149 --> 00:24:44,480
going on

641
00:24:48,630 --> 00:24:46,159
the first case that we have been able to

642
00:24:52,149 --> 00:24:48,640
identify in the medical literature

643
00:24:54,390 --> 00:24:52,159
dates back to the 1500s probably

644
00:24:57,909 --> 00:24:54,400
it occurred to a knight named polonius

645
00:25:01,909 --> 00:24:57,919
gorstius and that was chronicled by

646
00:25:04,310 --> 00:25:01,919
thomas martholini in a very rare 1674

647
00:25:06,789 --> 00:25:04,320
booklet that he wrote we have actually

648
00:25:07,909 --> 00:25:06,799
handled that book in our hands it does

649
00:25:10,470 --> 00:25:07,919
exist

650
00:25:12,549 --> 00:25:10,480
and the case in point he said quote a

651
00:25:14,470 --> 00:25:12,559
night polonius during the time of good

652
00:25:16,630 --> 00:25:14,480
queen bona sofa

653
00:25:17,669 --> 00:25:16,640
having consumed two ladles of strong

654
00:25:20,149 --> 00:25:17,679
wine

655
00:25:24,710 --> 00:25:20,159
vomited a flame and was thereupon

656
00:25:29,430 --> 00:25:26,710
that sounds like a match

657
00:25:30,789 --> 00:25:29,440
it sounds like a match to us

658
00:25:33,110 --> 00:25:30,799
if we go

659
00:25:35,510 --> 00:25:33,120
farther back in history

660
00:25:37,990 --> 00:25:35,520
excluding the medical documentation but

661
00:25:39,750 --> 00:25:38,000
looking at good sources from

662
00:25:42,630 --> 00:25:39,760
chronic orders enrollment and greek

663
00:25:45,269 --> 00:25:42,640
times we can come find reports of

664
00:25:47,669 --> 00:25:45,279
instances that certainly fall within the

665
00:25:49,909 --> 00:25:47,679
purview and the definition of shc that

666
00:25:52,230 --> 00:25:49,919
date back thousands of years

667
00:25:54,070 --> 00:25:52,240
our conclusion at our book ablaze is

668
00:25:57,430 --> 00:25:54,080
that this is a malady

669
00:26:01,269 --> 00:25:57,440
a medical condition deporting phenomenon

670
00:26:04,070 --> 00:26:01,279
that has plagued mankind for millennia

671
00:26:06,710 --> 00:26:04,080
that it remains so fiercely denied to

672
00:26:07,909 --> 00:26:06,720
this day is both a

673
00:26:10,789 --> 00:26:07,919
frustration

674
00:26:13,029 --> 00:26:10,799
and a puzzlement to us

675
00:26:14,950 --> 00:26:13,039
when it's argued that the body is 70

676
00:26:17,269 --> 00:26:14,960
water that is like trying to ignite a

677
00:26:19,350 --> 00:26:17,279
swimming pool that's true

678
00:26:23,269 --> 00:26:19,360
when it's said that internal organs are

679
00:26:25,750 --> 00:26:23,279
always left intact that is not true

680
00:26:27,590 --> 00:26:25,760
one of our

681
00:26:29,990 --> 00:26:27,600
prominent naysayers says that there are

682
00:26:31,590 --> 00:26:30,000
no known cases in which internal organs

683
00:26:33,590 --> 00:26:31,600
of a burned corpse

684
00:26:35,669 --> 00:26:33,600
are burned more severely than the outer

685
00:26:38,950 --> 00:26:35,679
parts of the body

686
00:26:41,750 --> 00:26:38,960
on that basis he claims that shc cannot

687
00:26:43,830 --> 00:26:41,760
has not and never will happen

688
00:26:45,269 --> 00:26:43,840
well his statement is categorically

689
00:26:48,470 --> 00:26:45,279
false

690
00:26:50,870 --> 00:26:48,480
though given that his criteria is wrong

691
00:26:52,630 --> 00:26:50,880
then we have to conclude as you said

692
00:26:54,149 --> 00:26:52,640
earlier based on the photographic

693
00:26:55,669 --> 00:26:54,159
evidence alone

694
00:26:58,789 --> 00:26:55,679
that these rare

695
00:26:59,830 --> 00:26:58,799
but clearly well documented cases of

696
00:27:01,430 --> 00:26:59,840
human

697
00:27:03,830 --> 00:27:01,440
beings

698
00:27:07,110 --> 00:27:03,840
becoming piles of powder

699
00:27:08,549 --> 00:27:07,120
do exist and do pose a real medical

700
00:27:10,310 --> 00:27:08,559
laundry

701
00:27:11,830 --> 00:27:10,320
for medical science and for science in

702
00:27:13,510 --> 00:27:11,840
general

703
00:27:14,310 --> 00:27:13,520
yeah definitely

704
00:27:17,269 --> 00:27:14,320
and

705
00:27:18,950 --> 00:27:17,279
the 33-year cycle is interesting that

706
00:27:21,430 --> 00:27:18,960
sounds to me like

707
00:27:23,510 --> 00:27:21,440
ritual killings of some kind because

708
00:27:26,710 --> 00:27:23,520
that's such an esoterically potent

709
00:27:27,430 --> 00:27:26,720
number among certain secret societies

710
00:27:29,510 --> 00:27:27,440
but

711
00:27:32,310 --> 00:27:29,520
regardless let's go a little further

712
00:27:34,789 --> 00:27:32,320
into what the debunkers and naysayers

713
00:27:37,789 --> 00:27:34,799
have tried to present as conventional

714
00:27:40,710 --> 00:27:37,799
explanations and how we know they are

715
00:27:42,230 --> 00:27:40,720
unsatisfactory explanations

716
00:27:45,830 --> 00:27:42,240
well let's see

717
00:27:48,070 --> 00:27:45,840
when we talk about the subject with

718
00:27:49,750 --> 00:27:48,080
those who have a different viewpoint and

719
00:27:52,070 --> 00:27:49,760
have arrived at a different conclusion

720
00:27:54,230 --> 00:27:52,080
than we have

721
00:27:55,510 --> 00:27:54,240
we deal with people like toxicologist dr

722
00:27:57,830 --> 00:27:55,520
smith and fitters who say that

723
00:27:59,350 --> 00:27:57,840
spontaneous combustion cannot occur and

724
00:28:01,029 --> 00:27:59,360
no good purpose can be served by

725
00:28:04,149 --> 00:28:01,039
discussing it

726
00:28:06,389 --> 00:28:04,159
dr lester adelson who was a forensic a

727
00:28:07,350 --> 00:28:06,399
medical examiner for cuyahoga county and

728
00:28:09,029 --> 00:28:07,360
ohio

729
00:28:10,470 --> 00:28:09,039
was handed some of the photographs that

730
00:28:12,710 --> 00:28:10,480
we have in our collection and he was

731
00:28:15,190 --> 00:28:12,720
asked to comment

732
00:28:16,789 --> 00:28:15,200
and his response was quote unquote i do

733
00:28:18,870 --> 00:28:16,799
not believe for a moment in the

734
00:28:20,549 --> 00:28:18,880
overheated concept of spontaneous human

735
00:28:22,310 --> 00:28:20,559
combustion

736
00:28:24,470 --> 00:28:22,320
ask about the photographs that he was

737
00:28:26,710 --> 00:28:24,480
observing holding in his hand he said

738
00:28:28,789 --> 00:28:26,720
well these photographs have to be fake

739
00:28:31,590 --> 00:28:28,799
they have to be hoaxes because again

740
00:28:34,710 --> 00:28:31,600
quote unquote bodies don't

741
00:28:36,549 --> 00:28:34,720
burn this way

742
00:28:38,710 --> 00:28:36,559
here's assessment

743
00:28:40,470 --> 00:28:38,720
when we spoke to dr adelson after he

744
00:28:42,630 --> 00:28:40,480
made those statements we asked him have

745
00:28:45,510 --> 00:28:42,640
you ever gone to a fire scene as a

746
00:28:47,669 --> 00:28:45,520
professional medical examiner

747
00:28:49,430 --> 00:28:47,679
look at one of these alleged cases that

748
00:28:55,190 --> 00:28:49,440
you dismiss

749
00:28:59,750 --> 00:28:57,430
the photographs that he was shown

750
00:29:01,430 --> 00:28:59,760
dr bentley

751
00:29:04,389 --> 00:29:01,440
mary reeser

752
00:29:06,870 --> 00:29:04,399
and a case from pennsylvania

753
00:29:08,710 --> 00:29:06,880
that happened to helen conway in 1964.

754
00:29:10,710 --> 00:29:08,720
we can discuss those cases we've already

755
00:29:14,470 --> 00:29:10,720
mentioned the reason case the bentley

756
00:29:16,549 --> 00:29:14,480
and conway cases are just phenomenal

757
00:29:18,710 --> 00:29:16,559
the photographs we have the providence

758
00:29:20,470 --> 00:29:18,720
for we know who took the photographs we

759
00:29:22,310 --> 00:29:20,480
know under the conditions in which those

760
00:29:27,110 --> 00:29:22,320
photographs were taken

761
00:29:30,870 --> 00:29:27,120
and 60s and the days before photoshop

762
00:29:34,149 --> 00:29:30,880
these photographs are real historical

763
00:29:36,549 --> 00:29:34,159
documentation of a phenomenon that dr

764
00:29:38,389 --> 00:29:36,559
adelson refuses to accept

765
00:29:41,510 --> 00:29:38,399
it was easier for him to write off the

766
00:29:43,510 --> 00:29:41,520
evidence as hoaxes and fake news to use

767
00:29:45,350 --> 00:29:43,520
a modern parlance

768
00:29:47,990 --> 00:29:45,360
than to confront something that he was

769
00:29:49,110 --> 00:29:48,000
on train to

770
00:29:52,870 --> 00:29:49,120
mentally

771
00:29:54,389 --> 00:29:52,880
accept within his reality

772
00:29:55,990 --> 00:29:54,399
that's too bad for him

773
00:30:01,029 --> 00:29:56,000
he's entitled to

774
00:30:03,029 --> 00:30:01,039
john duhan another

775
00:30:05,029 --> 00:30:03,039
well-known and highly respected and

776
00:30:06,549 --> 00:30:05,039
highly regarded fire scientist in

777
00:30:09,190 --> 00:30:06,559
america

778
00:30:11,350 --> 00:30:09,200
takes the premise that all these victims

779
00:30:13,909 --> 00:30:11,360
of so-called shc which of course he

780
00:30:15,909 --> 00:30:13,919
dismisses are truly victims of something

781
00:30:17,590 --> 00:30:15,919
called the human wic effect

782
00:30:20,389 --> 00:30:17,600
which in essence says that the human

783
00:30:21,990 --> 00:30:20,399
body functions as an inverted candle

784
00:30:25,269 --> 00:30:22,000
where the wick becomes the victim's

785
00:30:27,269 --> 00:30:25,279
clothing and once ignited externally

786
00:30:29,430 --> 00:30:27,279
the heat will burn into the body's

787
00:30:30,389 --> 00:30:29,440
adipose tissue which becomes the candle

788
00:30:32,950 --> 00:30:30,399
wax

789
00:30:35,029 --> 00:30:32,960
and over a period of many hours her body

790
00:30:37,830 --> 00:30:35,039
will slowly emulate into a pile of

791
00:30:39,830 --> 00:30:37,840
powder without creating enough heat to

792
00:30:42,389 --> 00:30:39,840
ignite surrounding combustible materials

793
00:30:44,470 --> 00:30:42,399
like stacks of newspapers and daylight

794
00:30:46,710 --> 00:30:44,480
we actually have cases in our database

795
00:30:48,230 --> 00:30:46,720
where the victim's clothing

796
00:30:50,230 --> 00:30:48,240
is intact

797
00:30:52,310 --> 00:30:50,240
but the bone is burned to the extent

798
00:30:54,789 --> 00:30:52,320
that it's been described as like

799
00:30:58,070 --> 00:30:54,799
houseline twig that you would see in a

800
00:30:59,190 --> 00:30:58,080
fireplace every very hot prolonged fire

801
00:31:00,789 --> 00:30:59,200
hmm

802
00:31:02,950 --> 00:31:00,799
a resort to that

803
00:31:05,430 --> 00:31:02,960
here's an interesting verb there

804
00:31:08,789 --> 00:31:05,440
is if it was so easy to burn a human

805
00:31:10,630 --> 00:31:08,799
body that way why do crematorium owners

806
00:31:12,950 --> 00:31:10,640
and operators who invest a hundred

807
00:31:14,549 --> 00:31:12,960
thousand dollars or more

808
00:31:16,230 --> 00:31:14,559
in a retort

809
00:31:18,389 --> 00:31:16,240
have to buy

810
00:31:20,549 --> 00:31:18,399
licensing permits to operate a

811
00:31:21,509 --> 00:31:20,559
crematorium

812
00:31:23,830 --> 00:31:21,519
spend

813
00:31:26,230 --> 00:31:23,840
money to buy 40 or 50 gallons of free

814
00:31:28,230 --> 00:31:26,240
oil and given the price of fuel today at

815
00:31:29,269 --> 00:31:28,240
five to six dollars a gallon for fuel

816
00:31:31,190 --> 00:31:29,279
oil

817
00:31:33,029 --> 00:31:31,200
and using 40-50 gallons of it you're

818
00:31:35,750 --> 00:31:33,039
talking a significant investment there

819
00:31:36,870 --> 00:31:35,760
just in fueling the fire or buying the

820
00:31:38,710 --> 00:31:36,880
fuel

821
00:31:41,029 --> 00:31:38,720
to cause the fire to incinerate a body

822
00:31:43,110 --> 00:31:41,039
interventory

823
00:31:45,029 --> 00:31:43,120
when if you believe the proponents of

824
00:31:47,590 --> 00:31:45,039
the wick effect you would only need a

825
00:31:49,830 --> 00:31:47,600
match and perhaps a cigarette lay it on

826
00:31:51,509 --> 00:31:49,840
the cadaver walk away and come back a

827
00:31:53,430 --> 00:31:51,519
few hours later and you'd have a pile of

828
00:31:55,909 --> 00:31:53,440
powder to scrape into an urn and hand to

829
00:31:58,149 --> 00:31:55,919
the next pin good point crematorium

830
00:32:00,389 --> 00:31:58,159
armor operators would love to do that

831
00:32:03,029 --> 00:32:00,399
because that is so easy and so cheap to

832
00:32:05,669 --> 00:32:03,039
do there's a reason they don't do that

833
00:32:07,990 --> 00:32:05,679
is because history and practical

834
00:32:11,750 --> 00:32:08,000
experience has told them

835
00:32:14,470 --> 00:32:11,760
it doesn't work that way

836
00:32:16,870 --> 00:32:14,480
we actually had the unique privilege a

837
00:32:18,950 --> 00:32:16,880
couple of years ago to interview

838
00:32:20,230 --> 00:32:18,960
not only a fire

839
00:32:22,070 --> 00:32:20,240
department

840
00:32:26,950 --> 00:32:22,080
commander

841
00:32:30,310 --> 00:32:26,960
operated a crematorium

842
00:32:31,110 --> 00:32:30,320
until he met with us and had us show to

843
00:32:33,190 --> 00:32:31,120
him

844
00:32:36,549 --> 00:32:33,200
jesus that we will be describing to you

845
00:32:38,710 --> 00:32:36,559
and your listeners on this podcast

846
00:32:41,430 --> 00:32:38,720
he had no idea

847
00:32:42,470 --> 00:32:41,440
as a crematorium owner and as a fire

848
00:32:44,870 --> 00:32:42,480
chief

849
00:32:47,990 --> 00:32:44,880
that bodies could burn to the extent

850
00:32:50,549 --> 00:32:48,000
that mrs rieser and dr bentley and

851
00:32:53,269 --> 00:32:50,559
spores of others have done

852
00:32:55,509 --> 00:32:53,279
in an environment devoid of the kind of

853
00:32:57,669 --> 00:32:55,519
heat and flame damage that one would

854
00:32:59,350 --> 00:32:57,679
common sense

855
00:33:00,789 --> 00:32:59,360
expect

856
00:33:04,230 --> 00:33:00,799
to find

857
00:33:06,549 --> 00:33:04,240
he was baffled he was mystified he said

858
00:33:09,669 --> 00:33:06,559
as have many other first responders to

859
00:33:12,710 --> 00:33:09,679
whom we have interviewed have said to us

860
00:33:14,070 --> 00:33:12,720
i don't have a clue

861
00:33:15,590 --> 00:33:14,080
right and

862
00:33:17,750 --> 00:33:15,600
i've heard that

863
00:33:20,470 --> 00:33:17,760
in some of these tv specials where they

864
00:33:22,870 --> 00:33:20,480
did explore this for a while

865
00:33:24,950 --> 00:33:22,880
and then they would talk to someone who

866
00:33:27,750 --> 00:33:24,960
would try to debunk it

867
00:33:30,230 --> 00:33:27,760
one of the things they did that

868
00:33:32,389 --> 00:33:30,240
is just kind of silly was burning pigs

869
00:33:34,389 --> 00:33:32,399
covered in gasoline and then they're

870
00:33:36,389 --> 00:33:34,399
like see same thing

871
00:33:37,590 --> 00:33:36,399
and obviously that's pretty far from the

872
00:33:39,590 --> 00:33:37,600
same thing

873
00:33:42,230 --> 00:33:39,600
oh thank you so much for recognizing

874
00:33:43,590 --> 00:33:42,240
that and for being astute and observant

875
00:33:46,710 --> 00:33:43,600
we wish

876
00:33:49,750 --> 00:33:46,720
fire scientists would be as clear-headed

877
00:33:51,750 --> 00:33:49,760
and open-minded as you have just proven

878
00:33:53,590 --> 00:33:51,760
yourself to be great

879
00:33:55,430 --> 00:33:53,600
we're going to get real specific with

880
00:33:57,430 --> 00:33:55,440
you

881
00:34:00,310 --> 00:33:57,440
we are aware of three experiments that

882
00:34:02,630 --> 00:34:00,320
have been televised using a pig as a

883
00:34:04,870 --> 00:34:02,640
substitute for the human body

884
00:34:07,509 --> 00:34:04,880
in an attempt to defunct so-called

885
00:34:09,190 --> 00:34:07,519
spontaneous human combustion

886
00:34:11,430 --> 00:34:09,200
actually four experiments three of them

887
00:34:13,750 --> 00:34:11,440
have been done by john de haan whom we

888
00:34:16,470 --> 00:34:13,760
mentioned earlier as a renowned highly

889
00:34:18,629 --> 00:34:16,480
regarded and highly paid

890
00:34:20,710 --> 00:34:18,639
fire forensics expert in the united

891
00:34:22,710 --> 00:34:20,720
states

892
00:34:23,829 --> 00:34:22,720
the first experiment he did was for the

893
00:34:26,069 --> 00:34:23,839
bbc

894
00:34:27,750 --> 00:34:26,079
in a program that also involved our

895
00:34:29,669 --> 00:34:27,760
participation

896
00:34:31,669 --> 00:34:29,679
in if we recall the date correctly in

897
00:34:33,589 --> 00:34:31,679
1999.

898
00:34:35,589 --> 00:34:33,599
he used a pig as a stand-in for a human

899
00:34:37,669 --> 00:34:35,599
body which is a fair standing the big

900
00:34:40,550 --> 00:34:37,679
world burned quite similarly to the

901
00:34:42,069 --> 00:34:40,560
human body so it's a fair substitute for

902
00:34:44,230 --> 00:34:42,079
a human corpse

903
00:34:46,790 --> 00:34:44,240
however the first thing he did was pour

904
00:34:48,310 --> 00:34:46,800
a liter of gasoline on the pig

905
00:34:50,149 --> 00:34:48,320
and he said he had to do that because he

906
00:34:52,790 --> 00:34:50,159
needed to raise the heat of combustion

907
00:34:55,190 --> 00:34:52,800
sufficiently so so that the adipose

908
00:34:57,910 --> 00:34:55,200
tissue would then become self-sustaining

909
00:35:00,069 --> 00:34:57,920
and combustion

910
00:35:01,510 --> 00:35:00,079
as we pointed out murray reeser dr

911
00:35:03,670 --> 00:35:01,520
bentley and all the other cases that

912
00:35:06,710 --> 00:35:03,680
we're going to discuss with you today

913
00:35:08,550 --> 00:35:06,720
did not involve any external application

914
00:35:09,990 --> 00:35:08,560
of an accelerated sense of gasoline or

915
00:35:11,990 --> 00:35:10,000
kerosene

916
00:35:13,829 --> 00:35:12,000
so it was a really bogus experiment but

917
00:35:15,430 --> 00:35:13,839
at the end of it there was still

918
00:35:17,910 --> 00:35:15,440
certainly enough of the pig left that

919
00:35:20,150 --> 00:35:17,920
any competent forensic anthropologist

920
00:35:22,150 --> 00:35:20,160
could have identified

921
00:35:25,270 --> 00:35:22,160
the remains as being

922
00:35:28,630 --> 00:35:25,280
foreseen not human

923
00:35:31,030 --> 00:35:28,640
john did two other experiments

924
00:35:33,030 --> 00:35:31,040
if we recall correctly both of which

925
00:35:34,950 --> 00:35:33,040
erupted in large

926
00:35:36,790 --> 00:35:34,960
combustion events

927
00:35:38,950 --> 00:35:36,800
so that external suppression fire

928
00:35:40,710 --> 00:35:38,960
equipment had to be brought in to quell

929
00:35:42,390 --> 00:35:40,720
the fire

930
00:35:44,470 --> 00:35:42,400
otherwise the entire burn chamber would

931
00:35:46,390 --> 00:35:44,480
have burned down

932
00:35:48,550 --> 00:35:46,400
again we don't find those situations

933
00:35:50,550 --> 00:35:48,560
with mary reese or dr bambino and the

934
00:35:51,910 --> 00:35:50,560
other cases that we detail in our book

935
00:35:54,470 --> 00:35:51,920
ablaze

936
00:35:55,990 --> 00:35:54,480
the episode that is most fascinating and

937
00:35:58,230 --> 00:35:56,000
most perplexing

938
00:36:00,390 --> 00:35:58,240
only we can tell you about because only

939
00:36:01,910 --> 00:36:00,400
we have the data to support and prove

940
00:36:03,349 --> 00:36:01,920
the statement that we're about to make

941
00:36:05,270 --> 00:36:03,359
to you

942
00:36:07,990 --> 00:36:05,280
the experiment that john de haan did

943
00:36:10,870 --> 00:36:08,000
that is most revealing and reveals to

944
00:36:13,750 --> 00:36:10,880
the extent to which a debunker will go

945
00:36:16,069 --> 00:36:13,760
to not have to face the concept of

946
00:36:19,510 --> 00:36:16,079
spontaneous human combustion

947
00:36:21,270 --> 00:36:19,520
aka sudden human cremation

948
00:36:22,870 --> 00:36:21,280
is one that he did for the learning

949
00:36:24,870 --> 00:36:22,880
channel

950
00:36:28,230 --> 00:36:24,880
in this experiment to substitute for the

951
00:36:30,710 --> 00:36:28,240
human body he took a fistful of candles

952
00:36:33,510 --> 00:36:30,720
wrapped in cotton fabric laid it on a

953
00:36:36,150 --> 00:36:33,520
chair and ignited it

954
00:36:37,670 --> 00:36:36,160
shortly afterwards he stands in the burn

955
00:36:42,230 --> 00:36:37,680
chamber

956
00:36:44,230 --> 00:36:42,240
and points to a localized fire

957
00:36:47,349 --> 00:36:44,240
on the chair

958
00:36:49,990 --> 00:36:47,359
faces the camera and says look

959
00:36:52,150 --> 00:36:50,000
localized fire

960
00:36:53,589 --> 00:36:52,160
no surrounding material significantly

961
00:36:56,630 --> 00:36:53,599
damaged

962
00:36:59,349 --> 00:36:56,640
looks like classic shc but clearly isn't

963
00:37:01,190 --> 00:36:59,359
this is the wick effect proves that shc

964
00:37:04,150 --> 00:37:01,200
doesn't happen

965
00:37:07,270 --> 00:37:04,160
that is his on-camera testimony

966
00:37:10,470 --> 00:37:07,280
and to every viewer of that program it

967
00:37:11,510 --> 00:37:10,480
would make perfect sense

968
00:37:12,790 --> 00:37:11,520
renowned

969
00:37:14,710 --> 00:37:12,800
professional

970
00:37:16,710 --> 00:37:14,720
fire investigator

971
00:37:18,790 --> 00:37:16,720
and a white lab jacket

972
00:37:20,150 --> 00:37:18,800
does the experiment

973
00:37:23,589 --> 00:37:20,160
produces the

974
00:37:25,430 --> 00:37:23,599
result that he anticipates and debunks

975
00:37:27,109 --> 00:37:25,440
shc

976
00:37:30,150 --> 00:37:27,119
here's the problem

977
00:37:31,829 --> 00:37:30,160
that is not what happened

978
00:37:34,069 --> 00:37:31,839
how do we know this

979
00:37:36,790 --> 00:37:34,079
because the production company that did

980
00:37:38,230 --> 00:37:36,800
the filming with us and then for john's

981
00:37:41,190 --> 00:37:38,240
experiment

982
00:37:43,349 --> 00:37:41,200
sent us the original

983
00:37:44,790 --> 00:37:43,359
dvd submission that they gave to the

984
00:37:47,430 --> 00:37:44,800
learning channel

985
00:37:49,190 --> 00:37:47,440
and there's a huge difference between

986
00:37:51,190 --> 00:37:49,200
what they filmed

987
00:37:52,470 --> 00:37:51,200
and what the learning channel chose to

988
00:37:55,030 --> 00:37:52,480
broadcast

989
00:37:57,510 --> 00:37:55,040
what is that difference

990
00:37:59,109 --> 00:37:57,520
it revolves around two points the first

991
00:38:02,390 --> 00:37:59,119
point is this

992
00:38:04,150 --> 00:38:02,400
why would a renowned professional fire

993
00:38:06,870 --> 00:38:04,160
investigator

994
00:38:08,870 --> 00:38:06,880
substitute for the human body a fistful

995
00:38:10,790 --> 00:38:08,880
of candles

996
00:38:13,430 --> 00:38:10,800
the human body is not one hundred

997
00:38:17,030 --> 00:38:13,440
percent paraffin wax

998
00:38:18,550 --> 00:38:17,040
everybody should recognize this

999
00:38:21,190 --> 00:38:18,560
the reason candles are made with

1000
00:38:23,750 --> 00:38:21,200
paraffin wax is because paraffin wax

1001
00:38:25,270 --> 00:38:23,760
will sustain a low heat combustion

1002
00:38:27,829 --> 00:38:25,280
process

1003
00:38:30,550 --> 00:38:27,839
the human body does not

1004
00:38:34,470 --> 00:38:30,560
the human body contains not just adipose

1005
00:38:37,750 --> 00:38:34,480
tissue but bone and bone is incredibly

1006
00:38:39,030 --> 00:38:37,760
difficult substance to burn

1007
00:38:40,390 --> 00:38:39,040
in

1008
00:38:42,310 --> 00:38:40,400
all

1009
00:38:47,109 --> 00:38:42,320
structure fires

1010
00:38:48,069 --> 00:38:47,119
in gasoline fuel automobile accidents

1011
00:38:49,430 --> 00:38:48,079
teeth

1012
00:38:51,430 --> 00:38:49,440
and hip bone

1013
00:38:53,750 --> 00:38:51,440
often are left intact to identify the

1014
00:38:56,470 --> 00:38:53,760
incinerated victim in those fire

1015
00:38:59,829 --> 00:38:56,480
situations

1016
00:39:02,630 --> 00:38:59,839
second point of mr de haan's

1017
00:39:06,589 --> 00:39:05,190
he did not have a self-contained

1018
00:39:09,750 --> 00:39:06,599
localized

1019
00:39:12,550 --> 00:39:09,760
self-extinguishing fire

1020
00:39:15,109 --> 00:39:12,560
the original experiment on the dvd that

1021
00:39:18,150 --> 00:39:15,119
the production company sent to us shows

1022
00:39:20,550 --> 00:39:18,160
that this fire raged

1023
00:39:24,150 --> 00:39:20,560
initially out of control there was a

1024
00:39:27,349 --> 00:39:24,160
huge flaming open flame combustion

1025
00:39:29,430 --> 00:39:27,359
process that was about to go flash over

1026
00:39:31,430 --> 00:39:29,440
that's when the air in a burned area is

1027
00:39:35,109 --> 00:39:31,440
so hot that the room would literally

1028
00:39:37,270 --> 00:39:35,119
explode instantaneously into flame

1029
00:39:39,270 --> 00:39:37,280
fire suppression equipment was brought

1030
00:39:41,670 --> 00:39:39,280
in to quench

1031
00:39:43,510 --> 00:39:41,680
this raging inferno that was about to

1032
00:39:45,349 --> 00:39:43,520
engulf the chair

1033
00:39:47,670 --> 00:39:45,359
and all the props that mr de haan had

1034
00:39:51,030 --> 00:39:47,680
set around the chair

1035
00:39:53,430 --> 00:39:51,040
from mr de haan after that happened a

1036
00:39:56,630 --> 00:39:53,440
walk back into that burn chamber

1037
00:39:58,870 --> 00:39:56,640
kneel down beside the chair and say look

1038
00:40:00,550 --> 00:39:58,880
localized combustion and imply that it

1039
00:40:02,390 --> 00:40:00,560
was self-extinguished

1040
00:40:03,270 --> 00:40:02,400
is nothing

1041
00:40:04,710 --> 00:40:03,280
but

1042
00:40:05,829 --> 00:40:04,720
an overt

1043
00:40:07,349 --> 00:40:05,839
blatant

1044
00:40:09,430 --> 00:40:07,359
line

1045
00:40:11,589 --> 00:40:09,440
and we have the evidence to support that

1046
00:40:13,750 --> 00:40:11,599
statement if he wants to file a suit

1047
00:40:15,990 --> 00:40:13,760
against us for making that statement

1048
00:40:18,790 --> 00:40:16,000
don dehaan come at us

1049
00:40:21,349 --> 00:40:18,800
because we will blow you away

1050
00:40:24,309 --> 00:40:21,359
i like it stirring the uh spontaneous

1051
00:40:27,109 --> 00:40:24,319
human combustion researcher drama pot

1052
00:40:28,069 --> 00:40:27,119
let's go there you go let's go come at

1053
00:40:30,470 --> 00:40:28,079
us

1054
00:40:31,430 --> 00:40:30,480
unfortunately this is the extent to

1055
00:40:33,589 --> 00:40:31,440
which

1056
00:40:36,309 --> 00:40:33,599
the naysayers

1057
00:40:40,790 --> 00:40:36,319
will go the lengths to which they would

1058
00:40:43,270 --> 00:40:40,800
stretch evidence and untruths

1059
00:40:47,430 --> 00:40:43,280
so that they simply don't have to face

1060
00:40:49,190 --> 00:40:47,440
up to something that they are on train

1061
00:40:51,349 --> 00:40:49,200
you have to accept

1062
00:40:53,829 --> 00:40:51,359
right right well that is a thorough

1063
00:40:56,230 --> 00:40:53,839
deconstruction of the debunkers and

1064
00:40:58,470 --> 00:40:56,240
their attempts to duplicate or explain

1065
00:41:00,550 --> 00:40:58,480
this stuff uh while we still have some

1066
00:41:02,550 --> 00:41:00,560
time in the first hour i wanted to maybe

1067
00:41:04,550 --> 00:41:02,560
outline another

1068
00:41:06,870 --> 00:41:04,560
case maybe one that you consider a

1069
00:41:08,309 --> 00:41:06,880
classic case the book starts with dr

1070
00:41:10,150 --> 00:41:08,319
bentley

1071
00:41:11,829 --> 00:41:10,160
maybe tell people a little bit about

1072
00:41:14,630 --> 00:41:11,839
that case

1073
00:41:16,790 --> 00:41:14,640
we would love to tell your listeners

1074
00:41:19,109 --> 00:41:16,800
about dr bentley because this is the

1075
00:41:21,910 --> 00:41:19,119
case that convinced us that we are

1076
00:41:23,349 --> 00:41:21,920
looking at something truly bizarre

1077
00:41:25,030 --> 00:41:23,359
truly

1078
00:41:28,950 --> 00:41:25,040
unexplained

1079
00:41:30,630 --> 00:41:28,960
and yet utterly fascinating

1080
00:41:33,349 --> 00:41:30,640
up to this point we'd only heard about

1081
00:41:35,510 --> 00:41:33,359
the research case in any detail

1082
00:41:38,950 --> 00:41:35,520
when we were tipped off to the existence

1083
00:41:40,630 --> 00:41:38,960
of a possible second case

1084
00:41:41,829 --> 00:41:40,640
reminiscent of mary reserve that

1085
00:41:44,870 --> 00:41:41,839
happened in our home state of

1086
00:41:47,270 --> 00:41:44,880
pennsylvania to dr john bentley and

1087
00:41:50,550 --> 00:41:47,280
counter sport in northern pennsylvania

1088
00:41:52,790 --> 00:41:50,560
back in 1966 we spent a weekend in

1089
00:41:54,470 --> 00:41:52,800
counter sport talking to everybody that

1090
00:41:57,190 --> 00:41:54,480
we could identify who had any

1091
00:41:59,589 --> 00:41:57,200
involvement in the fire fatality of dr

1092
00:42:01,670 --> 00:41:59,599
bentley we spoke to the first responders

1093
00:42:03,349 --> 00:42:01,680
we talked to the fire chief

1094
00:42:06,870 --> 00:42:03,359
we spoke to the newspaper editor we

1095
00:42:07,829 --> 00:42:06,880
spoke to the coroner the deputy coroner

1096
00:42:10,950 --> 00:42:07,839
and

1097
00:42:13,109 --> 00:42:10,960
our documentation of the family death is

1098
00:42:15,349 --> 00:42:13,119
so detailed that we chose to use it as

1099
00:42:17,030 --> 00:42:15,359
the opening chapter in our book ablaze

1100
00:42:19,990 --> 00:42:17,040
and it is there that really for the

1101
00:42:21,589 --> 00:42:20,000
first time dr bentley gets the notoriety

1102
00:42:22,950 --> 00:42:21,599
and the attention that his death

1103
00:42:25,349 --> 00:42:22,960
warrants

1104
00:42:27,990 --> 00:42:25,359
dr bambi was a 92 year old general

1105
00:42:31,190 --> 00:42:28,000
practitioner in cattersport pennsylvania

1106
00:42:34,069 --> 00:42:31,200
in 1966 spent most of his medical career

1107
00:42:36,309 --> 00:42:34,079
there he was beloved by the community

1108
00:42:38,630 --> 00:42:36,319
he had broken his hip several years

1109
00:42:41,270 --> 00:42:38,640
earlier and to locomote around his

1110
00:42:44,710 --> 00:42:41,280
apartment he used a new aluminum walker

1111
00:42:47,430 --> 00:42:44,720
he lived alone in a two-room apartment

1112
00:42:49,430 --> 00:42:47,440
on the morning of december 5 1966

1113
00:42:52,230 --> 00:42:49,440
bitterly cold winter morning in carter's

1114
00:42:54,550 --> 00:42:52,240
porch don gosnell local media reader for

1115
00:42:56,950 --> 00:42:54,560
the gas company walked into dr bentley's

1116
00:42:58,710 --> 00:42:56,960
apartment his home on north main street

1117
00:43:00,309 --> 00:42:58,720
and countersport to read the gas meter

1118
00:43:02,309 --> 00:43:00,319
in the basement

1119
00:43:04,710 --> 00:43:02,319
upon walking down the hallway past dr

1120
00:43:06,710 --> 00:43:04,720
bambi's two-room apartment don gosnell

1121
00:43:08,390 --> 00:43:06,720
noticed a sweet

1122
00:43:10,309 --> 00:43:08,400
smelling aroma

1123
00:43:11,510 --> 00:43:10,319
and wispy bluish white smoke in the

1124
00:43:13,349 --> 00:43:11,520
hallway

1125
00:43:15,910 --> 00:43:13,359
he thought it was curious but proceeded

1126
00:43:18,710 --> 00:43:15,920
to the basement to read the gas meter

1127
00:43:20,710 --> 00:43:18,720
upon turning to go back upstairs he

1128
00:43:23,030 --> 00:43:20,720
noticed on the earthen floor

1129
00:43:26,790 --> 00:43:23,040
a pile of ash about 5 inches in height

1130
00:43:28,870 --> 00:43:26,800
14 inches in diameter he told us

1131
00:43:30,790 --> 00:43:28,880
being a volunteer fireman as well as a

1132
00:43:33,109 --> 00:43:30,800
media reader for the local gas company

1133
00:43:35,430 --> 00:43:33,119
don gosnell was curious walked over

1134
00:43:37,589 --> 00:43:35,440
kicked him out with his award booth

1135
00:43:39,430 --> 00:43:37,599
and noticed nothing amiss he looked

1136
00:43:42,069 --> 00:43:39,440
overhead as to

1137
00:43:43,910 --> 00:43:42,079
the location the source of the ashes and

1138
00:43:46,069 --> 00:43:43,920
noticed a hole in the basement ceiling

1139
00:43:47,270 --> 00:43:46,079
about two and a half by three feet in

1140
00:43:49,270 --> 00:43:47,280
size

1141
00:43:51,349 --> 00:43:49,280
some cherry red embers on the perimeter

1142
00:43:53,829 --> 00:43:51,359
of that hole

1143
00:43:56,230 --> 00:43:53,839
mr guns now was more perplexed went back

1144
00:43:57,990 --> 00:43:56,240
upstairs and decided before leaving dr

1145
00:43:59,510 --> 00:43:58,000
bentley's home he knocked on the door dr

1146
00:44:01,750 --> 00:43:59,520
benny's apartment just to make sure that

1147
00:44:03,670 --> 00:44:01,760
the 92-year-old gentleman was you know

1148
00:44:06,470 --> 00:44:03,680
doing okay

1149
00:44:08,630 --> 00:44:06,480
he got no response

1150
00:44:10,470 --> 00:44:08,640
as people at that time in counter sport

1151
00:44:12,630 --> 00:44:10,480
tended not to lock their doors

1152
00:44:14,710 --> 00:44:12,640
don opened dr bentley's apartment door

1153
00:44:16,230 --> 00:44:14,720
peered in to the sitting living room of

1154
00:44:18,309 --> 00:44:16,240
dr bentley

1155
00:44:21,109 --> 00:44:18,319
saw the doctor's chair

1156
00:44:23,750 --> 00:44:21,119
saw the doctor stand next to the chair

1157
00:44:27,430 --> 00:44:23,760
but did not see the doctor

1158
00:44:29,670 --> 00:44:27,440
mr carsonell walked into the living room

1159
00:44:30,870 --> 00:44:29,680
and stuck his head into dr bentley's

1160
00:44:32,870 --> 00:44:30,880
bathroom

1161
00:44:34,630 --> 00:44:32,880
and as mr gosnell would tell us he

1162
00:44:35,589 --> 00:44:34,640
forever after wished he had not done

1163
00:44:37,750 --> 00:44:35,599
that

1164
00:44:38,710 --> 00:44:37,760
because in the bathroom of dr bentley he

1165
00:44:40,309 --> 00:44:38,720
saw

1166
00:44:42,950 --> 00:44:40,319
the other side of the hole that he had

1167
00:44:44,470 --> 00:44:42,960
just witnessed from the basement

1168
00:44:47,190 --> 00:44:44,480
next to the hole in dr bentley's

1169
00:44:48,790 --> 00:44:47,200
bathroom floor was half of a human leg

1170
00:44:51,030 --> 00:44:48,800
which does now first thought was the

1171
00:44:52,950 --> 00:44:51,040
lego of a mannequin but when he stooped

1172
00:44:54,390 --> 00:44:52,960
down to pure closer here i realized he

1173
00:44:56,470 --> 00:44:54,400
was not a mannequin's leg but a human

1174
00:44:58,390 --> 00:44:56,480
leg

1175
00:45:00,069 --> 00:44:58,400
the linoleum and dr bentley's bathroom

1176
00:45:01,750 --> 00:45:00,079
floor had burned through but had not

1177
00:45:04,630 --> 00:45:01,760
sustained combustion beyond that two and

1178
00:45:07,270 --> 00:45:04,640
a half by two foot hole

1179
00:45:09,510 --> 00:45:07,280
paint on the bathtub directly above the

1180
00:45:10,950 --> 00:45:09,520
perimeter of the hole was blackened but

1181
00:45:12,950 --> 00:45:10,960
not singed

1182
00:45:15,349 --> 00:45:12,960
we were at that fire scene we were

1183
00:45:17,510 --> 00:45:15,359
attest to that as fact

1184
00:45:20,309 --> 00:45:17,520
the ceiling and dr family's bathroom was

1185
00:45:22,390 --> 00:45:20,319
about seven and a half feet

1186
00:45:23,589 --> 00:45:22,400
up we could touch it with our extended

1187
00:45:25,750 --> 00:45:23,599
forearm

1188
00:45:27,670 --> 00:45:25,760
there was not a scorch mark on the

1189
00:45:30,390 --> 00:45:27,680
ceiling above the hole through which dr

1190
00:45:33,190 --> 00:45:30,400
bentley's body emulated

1191
00:45:36,790 --> 00:45:33,200
the remains of dr bentley consisted of

1192
00:45:38,710 --> 00:45:36,800
one half of one leg

1193
00:45:41,589 --> 00:45:38,720
a piece of patella

1194
00:45:44,150 --> 00:45:41,599
one knee bone i'm sorry a one kneecap

1195
00:45:46,710 --> 00:45:44,160
and possibly his head that was burned so

1196
00:45:49,109 --> 00:45:46,720
badly that was unrecognizable as i had

1197
00:45:50,870 --> 00:45:49,119
by some of the first responders

1198
00:45:54,150 --> 00:45:50,880
everything else

1199
00:45:57,430 --> 00:45:54,160
dr bentley's 175 pound body

1200
00:45:59,510 --> 00:45:57,440
had burned to dry ashen powder

1201
00:46:02,309 --> 00:45:59,520
that don gosnell had kicked in that

1202
00:46:05,349 --> 00:46:02,319
mound on the earth and basement floor

1203
00:46:07,270 --> 00:46:05,359
below his bathroom

1204
00:46:09,589 --> 00:46:07,280
as we said earlier typically

1205
00:46:12,309 --> 00:46:09,599
characteristic of these classic shc fire

1206
00:46:15,430 --> 00:46:12,319
scenes there is as we repeat a sweet

1207
00:46:17,430 --> 00:46:15,440
veteran perfume aroma at the fire scene

1208
00:46:19,430 --> 00:46:17,440
this fire scene so unnerved don goss

1209
00:46:20,790 --> 00:46:19,440
nell that when he called it in

1210
00:46:23,030 --> 00:46:20,800
he ran down the street yelling the

1211
00:46:24,069 --> 00:46:23,040
understatement in 1966 dr bentley's

1212
00:46:25,670 --> 00:46:24,079
burned up

1213
00:46:27,109 --> 00:46:25,680
when the other first responders arrived

1214
00:46:28,470 --> 00:46:27,119
at the fire scene he tried to discourage

1215
00:46:31,910 --> 00:46:28,480
them from going and he said you don't

1216
00:46:34,550 --> 00:46:31,920
want to see this it's too emotionally

1217
00:46:36,630 --> 00:46:34,560
psychologically disturbing i would never

1218
00:46:38,150 --> 00:46:36,640
go back in there with you they could not

1219
00:46:39,750 --> 00:46:38,160
believe what he told them was in there

1220
00:46:41,670 --> 00:46:39,760
they went in and came back out shaking

1221
00:46:44,630 --> 00:46:41,680
their heads as well

1222
00:46:46,550 --> 00:46:44,640
very wild yeah no internal organs no

1223
00:46:48,790 --> 00:46:46,560
lungs no liver

1224
00:46:51,910 --> 00:46:48,800
just all the bones gone

1225
00:46:53,990 --> 00:46:51,920
it is pretty wild and

1226
00:46:57,030 --> 00:46:54,000
just so we're leaving the first hour

1227
00:46:58,230 --> 00:46:57,040
listeners with something i know the book

1228
00:47:01,190 --> 00:46:58,240
covers

1229
00:47:03,430 --> 00:47:01,200
a lot of possible theories

1230
00:47:06,950 --> 00:47:03,440
what would you say as a

1231
00:47:08,550 --> 00:47:06,960
summary of some of them or maybe

1232
00:47:10,870 --> 00:47:08,560
something that you think maybe takes the

1233
00:47:13,510 --> 00:47:10,880
cake in terms of standing out amongst

1234
00:47:15,990 --> 00:47:13,520
these possible theories

1235
00:47:20,150 --> 00:47:16,000
in our book ablaze we consider more than

1236
00:47:23,030 --> 00:47:20,160
120 different hypotheses suggestions

1237
00:47:25,510 --> 00:47:23,040
that might explain any of the cases that

1238
00:47:27,589 --> 00:47:25,520
history has defined and as we defined as

1239
00:47:29,430 --> 00:47:27,599
shc

1240
00:47:32,710 --> 00:47:29,440
we have a couple favorite theories that

1241
00:47:35,030 --> 00:47:32,720
involve bioelectricity quantum physics

1242
00:47:37,670 --> 00:47:35,040
um

1243
00:47:39,750 --> 00:47:37,680
geotouric energies

1244
00:47:42,069 --> 00:47:39,760
places that one might be at a

1245
00:47:43,910 --> 00:47:42,079
inappropriate time

1246
00:47:46,470 --> 00:47:43,920
and we can discuss the cartography of

1247
00:47:48,549 --> 00:47:46,480
combustion and some other

1248
00:47:51,670 --> 00:47:48,559
possible ideas

1249
00:47:53,990 --> 00:47:51,680
that can rate and perhaps explain these

1250
00:47:55,430 --> 00:47:54,000
fascinatingly bizarre fires in our

1251
00:47:56,390 --> 00:47:55,440
number two

1252
00:47:58,470 --> 00:47:56,400
yes

1253
00:48:01,349 --> 00:47:58,480
they are quite wild and

1254
00:48:03,750 --> 00:48:01,359
in dr bentley's case

1255
00:48:05,990 --> 00:48:03,760
one of the details was uh really about

1256
00:48:08,230 --> 00:48:06,000
the surrounding area are there

1257
00:48:10,630 --> 00:48:08,240
commonalities to the surrounding area

1258
00:48:11,670 --> 00:48:10,640
around these victims because it seems

1259
00:48:14,870 --> 00:48:11,680
like

1260
00:48:16,309 --> 00:48:14,880
sometimes we have cloth that should burn

1261
00:48:18,790 --> 00:48:16,319
up not

1262
00:48:20,950 --> 00:48:18,800
and then also sometimes people burn

1263
00:48:23,430 --> 00:48:20,960
right through the floor so

1264
00:48:25,670 --> 00:48:23,440
this is really strange behavior for fire

1265
00:48:27,990 --> 00:48:25,680
it seems

1266
00:48:31,750 --> 00:48:28,000
it is extraordinarily strange behavior

1267
00:48:33,190 --> 00:48:31,760
for any fire to behave like this

1268
00:48:36,630 --> 00:48:33,200
there's a quote that we like from an

1269
00:48:38,470 --> 00:48:36,640
american sci-fi author named joyce binge

1270
00:48:41,109 --> 00:48:38,480
who says that contradictions are what

1271
00:48:43,829 --> 00:48:41,119
make human behavior so maddening and yet

1272
00:48:45,670 --> 00:48:43,839
so fascinating all at the same time

1273
00:48:48,470 --> 00:48:45,680
and that certainly applies perfectly to

1274
00:48:51,109 --> 00:48:48,480
the subject under discussion now

1275
00:48:53,589 --> 00:48:51,119
we have found geographically a

1276
00:48:56,630 --> 00:48:53,599
commonality to some of the cases

1277
00:48:58,390 --> 00:48:56,640
and in the dr bama case in particular

1278
00:49:01,349 --> 00:48:58,400
we have discovered that

1279
00:49:03,829 --> 00:49:01,359
as we said dr family burned up or

1280
00:49:06,390 --> 00:49:03,839
correctly burned down

1281
00:49:08,309 --> 00:49:06,400
to his bathroom floor in countersport in

1282
00:49:11,109 --> 00:49:08,319
1966

1283
00:49:14,710 --> 00:49:11,119
enduring research for a completely

1284
00:49:18,390 --> 00:49:14,720
possibly unrelated phenomenon of

1285
00:49:21,030 --> 00:49:18,400
places in the potter county area where

1286
00:49:23,270 --> 00:49:21,040
water will freeze in the summer and not

1287
00:49:25,270 --> 00:49:23,280
freeze in the winter

1288
00:49:28,390 --> 00:49:25,280
we have found five areas where that

1289
00:49:29,670 --> 00:49:28,400
happens it forms a perfect triangle area

1290
00:49:31,030 --> 00:49:29,680
centered around countersport

1291
00:49:33,829 --> 00:49:31,040
pennsylvania

1292
00:49:37,030 --> 00:49:33,839
so in dr bemidji's case we had this

1293
00:49:39,270 --> 00:49:37,040
astonishing juxtaposition of

1294
00:49:41,430 --> 00:49:39,280
high heat thermal phenomena

1295
00:49:44,870 --> 00:49:41,440
in the center of cattle sport surrounded

1296
00:49:45,829 --> 00:49:44,880
by at least five locations where we have

1297
00:49:47,270 --> 00:49:45,839
low

1298
00:49:49,349 --> 00:49:47,280
freezing

1299
00:49:51,990 --> 00:49:49,359
temperature anomalies

1300
00:49:54,230 --> 00:49:52,000
whether that has significant subductive

1301
00:49:56,710 --> 00:49:54,240
enemies fiery demise we're not certain

1302
00:49:59,670 --> 00:49:56,720
but it raises some

1303
00:50:01,109 --> 00:49:59,680
fascinating prospects for earth energies

1304
00:50:03,349 --> 00:50:01,119
that may have

1305
00:50:05,670 --> 00:50:03,359
applicability to all kinds of thermal

1306
00:50:07,910 --> 00:50:05,680
phenomena

1307
00:50:10,150 --> 00:50:07,920
yeah that is quite strange there's a

1308
00:50:13,589 --> 00:50:10,160
spontaneous human combustion triangle

1309
00:50:15,589 --> 00:50:13,599
that we didn't know about maybe several

1310
00:50:19,030 --> 00:50:15,599
well we'll have to explore that concept

1311
00:50:20,230 --> 00:50:19,040
in detail in hour number two

1312
00:50:21,030 --> 00:50:20,240
sure sure

1313
00:50:22,069 --> 00:50:21,040
man

1314
00:50:24,309 --> 00:50:22,079
do you feel

1315
00:50:26,309 --> 00:50:24,319
in terms of just fordian in general and

1316
00:50:28,230 --> 00:50:26,319
the the general discourse do you feel

1317
00:50:29,990 --> 00:50:28,240
like the term fortion has kind of

1318
00:50:33,030 --> 00:50:30,000
fizzled out several of the 40 in

1319
00:50:35,430 --> 00:50:33,040
societies that were there are gone now

1320
00:50:37,750 --> 00:50:35,440
or their websites are in shambles it's

1321
00:50:40,750 --> 00:50:37,760
kind of sad man it seems like interest

1322
00:50:43,270 --> 00:50:40,760
in high strangeness is more

1323
00:50:46,470 --> 00:50:43,280
compartmentalized now and fortion was

1324
00:50:48,710 --> 00:50:46,480
much more broad and willing to look at

1325
00:50:51,430 --> 00:50:48,720
anything that didn't even fit any

1326
00:50:54,470 --> 00:50:51,440
category of any kind and it just feels

1327
00:50:56,470 --> 00:50:54,480
like there's a different tone to the

1328
00:50:58,470 --> 00:50:56,480
paranormal and the paranormal

1329
00:51:00,470 --> 00:50:58,480
researchers these days

1330
00:51:03,349 --> 00:51:00,480
we are making a very interesting

1331
00:51:06,150 --> 00:51:03,359
observation greg

1332
00:51:09,270 --> 00:51:06,160
reflecting that perhaps so

1333
00:51:11,990 --> 00:51:09,280
we continue to subscribe to 40 times

1334
00:51:13,829 --> 00:51:12,000
what we consider to be the preeminent

1335
00:51:16,470 --> 00:51:13,839
journal on documenting all kinds of

1336
00:51:19,430 --> 00:51:16,480
weirdness and deep intellectual

1337
00:51:20,549 --> 00:51:19,440
thought and analyses of fortian subjects

1338
00:51:22,710 --> 00:51:20,559
that

1339
00:51:24,549 --> 00:51:22,720
continue to plague the planet

1340
00:51:27,270 --> 00:51:24,559
but kind of like metaphysics back in the

1341
00:51:29,510 --> 00:51:27,280
70s and early 80s we were deeply

1342
00:51:33,750 --> 00:51:29,520
involved with many metaphysical groups

1343
00:51:35,430 --> 00:51:33,760
and they too have gone by the wayside

1344
00:51:37,349 --> 00:51:35,440
we've often said that spontaneous

1345
00:51:39,270 --> 00:51:37,359
combustion is probably going to be

1346
00:51:41,190 --> 00:51:39,280
denied heatedly

1347
00:51:43,349 --> 00:51:41,200
if we may use the phrase

1348
00:51:44,870 --> 00:51:43,359
until someone with high public notoriety

1349
00:51:46,710 --> 00:51:44,880
like perhaps the president of the united

1350
00:51:48,230 --> 00:51:46,720
states goes up in a ball of blue flame

1351
00:51:49,589 --> 00:51:48,240
in front of a bank of microphones and

1352
00:51:51,510 --> 00:51:49,599
television cameras and that's going to

1353
00:51:53,270 --> 00:51:51,520
be oh yeah we know about this we've

1354
00:51:54,950 --> 00:51:53,280
known about this for decades yeah sure

1355
00:51:58,870 --> 00:51:54,960
what happens

1356
00:52:00,230 --> 00:51:58,880
until that happens and probably not so

1357
00:52:02,069 --> 00:52:00,240
pleasantly there are still people out

1358
00:52:04,710 --> 00:52:02,079
there who maintain a very active

1359
00:52:07,349 --> 00:52:04,720
intellectual curiosity about all kinds

1360
00:52:10,150 --> 00:52:07,359
of high strangeness we've got to

1361
00:52:12,950 --> 00:52:10,160
call out nancy paulken in california who

1362
00:52:15,190 --> 00:52:12,960
is one of your avid listeners and indeed

1363
00:52:17,190 --> 00:52:15,200
we believe is how you first heard about

1364
00:52:18,630 --> 00:52:17,200
our research and about us to discuss

1365
00:52:20,390 --> 00:52:18,640
this with you and your listeners for

1366
00:52:22,150 --> 00:52:20,400
what you were quite grateful

1367
00:52:23,670 --> 00:52:22,160
right on

1368
00:52:25,589 --> 00:52:23,680
one of our favorite quotes is by eden

1369
00:52:27,750 --> 00:52:25,599
philpotts it's from a shadow passes in

1370
00:52:30,390 --> 00:52:27,760
which he writes the universe is full of

1371
00:52:33,910 --> 00:52:30,400
magical things patiently waiting for our

1372
00:52:38,549 --> 00:52:35,829
that's a good philosophy that has guided

1373
00:52:40,230 --> 00:52:38,559
us through decades of investigating

1374
00:52:43,109 --> 00:52:40,240
weird stuff

1375
00:52:45,270 --> 00:52:43,119
we think we're not particularly gullible

1376
00:52:48,630 --> 00:52:45,280
we try to approach our research

1377
00:52:51,510 --> 00:52:48,640
with an open curious mindset

1378
00:52:53,270 --> 00:52:51,520
about applying scientific methodology

1379
00:52:54,870 --> 00:52:53,280
if it can be explained by what is

1380
00:52:58,309 --> 00:52:54,880
presently known

1381
00:52:59,190 --> 00:52:58,319
bingo excellent put that on the solved

1382
00:53:01,349 --> 00:52:59,200
shell

1383
00:53:05,510 --> 00:53:01,359
and find something that looks like it

1384
00:53:07,510 --> 00:53:05,520
still belongs in the uv salt shell

1385
00:53:09,829 --> 00:53:07,520
and that particularly applies in the

1386
00:53:13,670 --> 00:53:09,839
work that we've done with precognition

1387
00:53:15,109 --> 00:53:13,680
with thunderbirds and certainly with our

1388
00:53:16,390 --> 00:53:15,119
decades

1389
00:53:18,470 --> 00:53:16,400
of study

1390
00:53:19,670 --> 00:53:18,480
of what collectively is called pyro

1391
00:53:22,150 --> 00:53:19,680
phenomena

1392
00:53:24,230 --> 00:53:22,160
strange fires that

1393
00:53:27,109 --> 00:53:24,240
cannot be rejected

1394
00:53:29,910 --> 00:53:27,119
except by those with closed minds

1395
00:53:31,990 --> 00:53:29,920
hmm if you don't reject

1396
00:53:33,670 --> 00:53:32,000
the evidence

1397
00:53:36,230 --> 00:53:33,680
then automatically

1398
00:53:39,030 --> 00:53:36,240
you must confront the fact and the

1399
00:53:40,549 --> 00:53:39,040
situation that there is so much yet to

1400
00:53:44,150 --> 00:53:40,559
be discovered

1401
00:53:45,190 --> 00:53:44,160
about combustion phenomena about fire in

1402
00:53:47,990 --> 00:53:45,200
general

1403
00:53:50,470 --> 00:53:48,000
fire is thought to be man's oldest tool

1404
00:53:53,510 --> 00:53:50,480
perhaps it is

1405
00:53:54,710 --> 00:53:53,520
it is certainly still one of man's least

1406
00:53:56,950 --> 00:53:54,720
understood

1407
00:53:57,990 --> 00:53:56,960
tools

1408
00:53:59,670 --> 00:53:58,000
until

1409
00:54:01,150 --> 00:53:59,680
we

1410
00:54:03,910 --> 00:54:01,160
and

1411
00:54:07,910 --> 00:54:03,920
curiosity-minded individuals

1412
00:54:10,710 --> 00:54:07,920
choose to look at the evidence honestly

1413
00:54:12,470 --> 00:54:10,720
and with great curiosity

1414
00:54:13,829 --> 00:54:12,480
not with dismissal

1415
00:54:15,430 --> 00:54:13,839
and denial

1416
00:54:17,670 --> 00:54:15,440
and denigration

1417
00:54:20,630 --> 00:54:17,680
and debunking

1418
00:54:23,190 --> 00:54:20,640
then new things can be discovered

1419
00:54:25,349 --> 00:54:23,200
new understanding can be achieved

1420
00:54:27,750 --> 00:54:25,359
and progress

1421
00:54:29,430 --> 00:54:27,760
will happen

1422
00:54:31,750 --> 00:54:29,440
and we'll find something else that's 40

1423
00:54:33,750 --> 00:54:31,760
that can be explored and discovered

1424
00:54:37,589 --> 00:54:33,760
learning should never cease right and

1425
00:54:40,549 --> 00:54:37,599
the rabbit hole goes deep yes it does

1426
00:54:42,789 --> 00:54:40,559
well cheers to that well said good place

1427
00:54:45,109 --> 00:54:42,799
to pull it all together

1428
00:54:47,430 --> 00:54:45,119
man i really had a blast this is

1429
00:54:49,750 --> 00:54:47,440
certainly a mysterious thing that

1430
00:54:52,549 --> 00:54:49,760
happens to people

1431
00:54:55,109 --> 00:54:52,559
every once in a great while maybe every

1432
00:54:57,190 --> 00:54:55,119
five years or so or maybe every 10 years

1433
00:54:59,190 --> 00:54:57,200
that's it happens rare enough that

1434
00:55:01,750 --> 00:54:59,200
that's how people can forget about it

1435
00:55:04,309 --> 00:55:01,760
but it does happen and when you really

1436
00:55:06,230 --> 00:55:04,319
examine the evidence of

1437
00:55:08,950 --> 00:55:06,240
the cases that you've outlined here that

1438
00:55:11,349 --> 00:55:08,960
you have in the book and what the

1439
00:55:13,510 --> 00:55:11,359
medical examiners say and what fire

1440
00:55:14,309 --> 00:55:13,520
experts say and what the photographs

1441
00:55:16,789 --> 00:55:14,319
show

1442
00:55:19,030 --> 00:55:16,799
it's unbelievable and it really is way

1443
00:55:20,549 --> 00:55:19,040
more mysterious than

1444
00:55:21,349 --> 00:55:20,559
people give it credit for and it should

1445
00:55:23,589 --> 00:55:21,359
be

1446
00:55:25,430 --> 00:55:23,599
still in the rolodex of weird stuff i'd

1447
00:55:27,670 --> 00:55:25,440
say so here i am trying to put it back

1448
00:55:29,829 --> 00:55:27,680
up there in people's minds and i

1449
00:55:31,670 --> 00:55:29,839
appreciate you helping me do that and

1450
00:55:34,069 --> 00:55:31,680
spending the time with me do you want to

1451
00:55:36,150 --> 00:55:34,079
tell people anything more about the book

1452
00:55:37,430 --> 00:55:36,160
or give them any other links before we

1453
00:55:39,990 --> 00:55:37,440
call it in

1454
00:55:43,670 --> 00:55:40,000
absolutely you have kindly and cogently

1455
00:55:46,069 --> 00:55:43,680
synopsize the topic precisely

1456
00:55:46,789 --> 00:55:46,079
in terms of more information we welcome

1457
00:55:49,670 --> 00:55:46,799
it

1458
00:55:52,549 --> 00:55:49,680
we would be eager and anxious

1459
00:55:54,870 --> 00:55:52,559
to hear from your listeners

1460
00:55:57,270 --> 00:55:54,880
with ideas with thoughts with

1461
00:55:58,549 --> 00:55:57,280
suggestions with sources

1462
00:56:00,549 --> 00:55:58,559
and

1463
00:56:02,230 --> 00:56:00,559
most wonderfully if they could tip us

1464
00:56:04,710 --> 00:56:02,240
off to a case that we might not know

1465
00:56:05,910 --> 00:56:04,720
about or that would happen in the future

1466
00:56:07,510 --> 00:56:05,920
the quicker that we can learn about

1467
00:56:08,950 --> 00:56:07,520
these cases the quicker we can get

1468
00:56:11,190 --> 00:56:08,960
ourselves out to the fire scenes make

1469
00:56:12,950 --> 00:56:11,200
contact with the first responders

1470
00:56:13,750 --> 00:56:12,960
the longer the cases

1471
00:56:16,069 --> 00:56:13,760
lay

1472
00:56:17,990 --> 00:56:16,079
unaddressed and uninvestigated the

1473
00:56:20,230 --> 00:56:18,000
easier it is to cover them up and

1474
00:56:22,549 --> 00:56:20,240
misrepresent them

1475
00:56:24,789 --> 00:56:22,559
our book is ablaze the mysterious fires

1476
00:56:27,750 --> 00:56:24,799
of spontaneous human combustion it is

1477
00:56:30,630 --> 00:56:27,760
available through amazon of course

1478
00:56:32,789 --> 00:56:30,640
our email for

1479
00:56:36,230 --> 00:56:32,799
contact is very simple

1480
00:56:37,750 --> 00:56:36,240
s h e happens

1481
00:56:39,829 --> 00:56:37,760
at gmail

1482
00:56:42,069 --> 00:56:39,839
contact us if you like a personally

1483
00:56:44,150 --> 00:56:42,079
inscribed book contact us through that

1484
00:56:45,670 --> 00:56:44,160
email and we'll be happy to accommodate

1485
00:56:47,510 --> 00:56:45,680
your listeners with that kind of a

1486
00:56:50,630 --> 00:56:47,520
request

1487
00:56:53,190 --> 00:56:50,640
keep an open mind be curious

1488
00:56:54,950 --> 00:56:53,200
and if you hear about any strange fires

1489
00:56:57,430 --> 00:56:54,960
please contact us

1490
00:56:59,109 --> 00:56:57,440
and possibilities do happen

1491
00:57:00,950 --> 00:56:59,119
and we're eager to investigate them to

1492
00:57:03,510 --> 00:57:00,960
the best of our ability

1493
00:57:05,910 --> 00:57:03,520
i like it and i hope people do have some

1494
00:57:08,549 --> 00:57:05,920
logs to add to the fire so to speak and

1495
00:57:11,349 --> 00:57:08,559
do contact you with any information they

1496
00:57:13,829 --> 00:57:11,359
might have and i'm also very lucky that

1497
00:57:15,829 --> 00:57:13,839
i have a personalized inscription or i

1498
00:57:18,390 --> 00:57:15,839
have an autograph from you in the book

1499
00:57:20,870 --> 00:57:18,400
that i got just straight off amazon so

1500
00:57:23,589 --> 00:57:20,880
i don't know uh how that happened but

1501
00:57:26,069 --> 00:57:23,599
the the book gods were smiling on me so

1502
00:57:28,470 --> 00:57:26,079
very cool and this has been a lot of fun

1503
00:57:30,870 --> 00:57:28,480
so i don't know if we ever will solve it

1504
00:57:33,750 --> 00:57:30,880
completely but if we do we'll have to

1505
00:57:35,430 --> 00:57:33,760
talk again and take care out there keep

1506
00:57:37,270 --> 00:57:35,440
fighting the good fight man

1507
00:57:40,630 --> 00:57:37,280
thank you greg wish i did that likewise

1508
00:57:46,549 --> 00:57:43,750
all right larry e arnold the bonafide

1509
00:57:49,750 --> 00:57:46,559
expert in spontaneous human combustion

1510
00:57:51,430 --> 00:57:49,760
and or sudden human cremation and or the

1511
00:57:53,030 --> 00:57:51,440
fire within

1512
00:57:55,829 --> 00:57:53,040
honestly i just wanted to bring this

1513
00:57:57,349 --> 00:57:55,839
topic back into the paranormal fold

1514
00:57:59,030 --> 00:57:57,359
because i thought it would be fun and

1515
00:58:01,030 --> 00:57:59,040
unexpected

1516
00:58:03,270 --> 00:58:01,040
with everything being so intense and

1517
00:58:04,309 --> 00:58:03,280
heavy right now i really just wanted a

1518
00:58:06,630 --> 00:58:04,319
break

1519
00:58:08,470 --> 00:58:06,640
and i even thought to myself so what if

1520
00:58:10,069 --> 00:58:08,480
it's people who were falling asleep with

1521
00:58:11,670 --> 00:58:10,079
lit cigarettes in their mouths we can

1522
00:58:14,630 --> 00:58:11,680
still make it fun

1523
00:58:16,710 --> 00:58:14,640
but it is so much weirder than that

1524
00:58:19,670 --> 00:58:16,720
obviously my 12 year old self could be

1525
00:58:22,390 --> 00:58:19,680
fooled by the cigarette explanation

1526
00:58:24,630 --> 00:58:22,400
but it's pretty clear now that that is

1527
00:58:26,870 --> 00:58:24,640
like the swamp gas

1528
00:58:28,230 --> 00:58:26,880
explanation for what is a really weird

1529
00:58:30,390 --> 00:58:28,240
phenomenon

1530
00:58:33,430 --> 00:58:30,400
any adults should see right through it

1531
00:58:35,349 --> 00:58:33,440
but the images are pretty gruesome

1532
00:58:38,549 --> 00:58:35,359
just google image search

1533
00:58:40,470 --> 00:58:38,559
spontaneous human combustion victims

1534
00:58:42,470 --> 00:58:40,480
and you will see some of the black and

1535
00:58:45,270 --> 00:58:42,480
white photos i'm talking about and it's

1536
00:58:47,109 --> 00:58:45,280
like holy [\h__\h] i don't actually think i

1537
00:58:49,510 --> 00:58:47,119
want to see this

1538
00:58:51,910 --> 00:58:49,520
but who knew there were survivor cases

1539
00:58:54,470 --> 00:58:51,920
who knew the smell was sweet rather than

1540
00:58:55,750 --> 00:58:54,480
repulsive lots of weird wild stuff in

1541
00:58:57,829 --> 00:58:55,760
there

1542
00:58:59,829 --> 00:58:57,839
larry wrote a great book he knows the

1543
00:59:01,510 --> 00:58:59,839
cases really well

1544
00:59:04,230 --> 00:59:01,520
if i was going to try to cover this i'm

1545
00:59:05,990 --> 00:59:04,240
glad i found him because it was about as

1546
00:59:07,990 --> 00:59:06,000
good as it could be and there's not a

1547
00:59:10,230 --> 00:59:08,000
lot more to say about it

1548
00:59:12,549 --> 00:59:10,240
now i'm glad we have a spontaneous human

1549
00:59:14,789 --> 00:59:12,559
combustion show in the archive i'm sorry

1550
00:59:17,190 --> 00:59:14,799
it's taken so long

1551
00:59:18,870 --> 00:59:17,200
and i hope you liked such a random wild

1552
00:59:21,109 --> 00:59:18,880
card episode

1553
00:59:23,270 --> 00:59:21,119
several of the recent thc's have been

1554
00:59:25,030 --> 00:59:23,280
more of the paranormal flavor rather

1555
00:59:26,950 --> 00:59:25,040
than conspiracy

1556
00:59:30,549 --> 00:59:26,960
but we're about to swing back into the

1557
00:59:32,630 --> 00:59:30,559
heavy real world real time stuff

1558
00:59:35,349 --> 00:59:32,640
if you heard me on tinfoil hat recently

1559
00:59:36,870 --> 00:59:35,359
with sam tripoli i previewed a lot of it

1560
00:59:39,270 --> 00:59:36,880
because it's just what i'm digesting

1561
00:59:41,190 --> 00:59:39,280
this week as i prepare for the next

1562
00:59:43,510 --> 00:59:41,200
round of interviews

1563
00:59:45,190 --> 00:59:43,520
and preparedness is the word of the day

1564
00:59:46,630 --> 00:59:45,200
it's going to be super important and i

1565
00:59:48,870 --> 00:59:46,640
want to be able to sleep at night

1566
00:59:51,270 --> 00:59:48,880
knowing that i did what i could to use

1567
00:59:52,950 --> 00:59:51,280
my show to get the right stuff out at

1568
00:59:55,510 --> 00:59:52,960
the right time

1569
00:59:58,230 --> 00:59:55,520
but if you want more shc larry's book

1570
01:00:01,270 --> 00:59:58,240
ablaze looks great on any weird stuff

1571
01:00:03,190 --> 01:00:01,280
bookshelf really good title two

1572
01:00:05,030 --> 01:00:03,200
and then higher side news still just

1573
01:00:07,910 --> 01:00:05,040
playing catch-up but we did announce

1574
01:00:10,150 --> 01:00:07,920
that i'm gonna be doing a magic on the

1575
01:00:13,430 --> 01:00:10,160
mountain event with the gramerica guys

1576
01:00:15,750 --> 01:00:13,440
it's gonna be a extended weekend hangout

1577
01:00:17,510 --> 01:00:15,760
it's going to be at mount shasta in

1578
01:00:20,069 --> 01:00:17,520
february

1579
01:00:22,230 --> 01:00:20,079
spaces are pretty limited to about like

1580
01:00:26,150 --> 01:00:22,240
50 people i think but there's going to

1581
01:00:28,789 --> 01:00:26,160
be several speakers we're going to do a

1582
01:00:30,549 --> 01:00:28,799
q a panel type thing and really it's

1583
01:00:33,589 --> 01:00:30,559
just going to be hanging out we're going

1584
01:00:35,270 --> 01:00:33,599
to be going on a couple of hikes

1585
01:00:37,349 --> 01:00:35,280
we're going to be drinking that sweet

1586
01:00:39,190 --> 01:00:37,359
sweet water from the base of mount

1587
01:00:41,510 --> 01:00:39,200
shasta which i've only been able to do

1588
01:00:43,430 --> 01:00:41,520
one other time and i really am looking

1589
01:00:45,349 --> 01:00:43,440
forward to getting back to that

1590
01:00:47,670 --> 01:00:45,359
i know a lot more about good quality

1591
01:00:50,150 --> 01:00:47,680
water this time around

1592
01:00:52,150 --> 01:00:50,160
but i just posted the link on twitter i

1593
01:00:54,069 --> 01:00:52,160
think it's contact at the cabin

1594
01:00:55,109 --> 01:00:54,079
gramerica you just search that it will

1595
01:00:57,109 --> 01:00:55,119
come up

1596
01:00:58,950 --> 01:00:57,119
they've been doing these events

1597
01:01:01,349 --> 01:00:58,960
once a quarter almost and it's really

1598
01:01:04,150 --> 01:01:01,359
impressive so it is about time i get

1599
01:01:06,309 --> 01:01:04,160
involved and do a joint event with them

1600
01:01:08,549 --> 01:01:06,319
they've got all the logistics worked out

1601
01:01:10,150 --> 01:01:08,559
and all the pricing

1602
01:01:13,190 --> 01:01:10,160
and you may have a little sticker shock

1603
01:01:15,430 --> 01:01:13,200
when you see the pricing but you have to

1604
01:01:19,030 --> 01:01:15,440
consider the fact that your room and

1605
01:01:22,069 --> 01:01:19,040
board and meals are all in that so

1606
01:01:24,630 --> 01:01:22,079
if you were to take a vacation somewhere

1607
01:01:26,630 --> 01:01:24,640
and you're paying for a hotel and you're

1608
01:01:28,150 --> 01:01:26,640
paying for your meals i mean it's very

1609
01:01:29,670 --> 01:01:28,160
easy to spend three or four hundred

1610
01:01:32,150 --> 01:01:29,680
bucks a day so

1611
01:01:34,470 --> 01:01:32,160
consider that parse it out over the four

1612
01:01:35,910 --> 01:01:34,480
and a half five days and i hope to see

1613
01:01:37,750 --> 01:01:35,920
you there

1614
01:01:39,750 --> 01:01:37,760
and if we're gonna swing over to the thc

1615
01:01:41,270 --> 01:01:39,760
meetup calendar

1616
01:01:43,030 --> 01:01:41,280
i mentioned these last time but it's

1617
01:01:45,910 --> 01:01:43,040
only been a few days since the last show

1618
01:01:47,990 --> 01:01:45,920
july 22nd tomorrow

1619
01:01:50,710 --> 01:01:48,000
the milwaukee metaphysical society

1620
01:01:53,670 --> 01:01:50,720
season of the crab send-off in milwaukee

1621
01:01:56,069 --> 01:01:53,680
oregon at the beer store also tomorrow

1622
01:01:58,150 --> 01:01:56,079
nashville hire cider's happy hour at the

1623
01:01:59,430 --> 01:01:58,160
tailgate brewery location in nashville

1624
01:02:02,069 --> 01:01:59,440
tennessee

1625
01:02:04,150 --> 01:02:02,079
july 30th the kansas find the others

1626
01:02:08,069 --> 01:02:04,160
event at sand hills brewing in

1627
01:02:10,789 --> 01:02:08,079
hutchinson kansas also july 30th

1628
01:02:12,230 --> 01:02:10,799
the new orleans thc meetup at that dog

1629
01:02:14,549 --> 01:02:12,240
and uptown

1630
01:02:17,510 --> 01:02:14,559
and one more in the month someone just

1631
01:02:20,630 --> 01:02:17,520
added the july 31st

1632
01:02:24,309 --> 01:02:20,640
719 local joint session meetup in

1633
01:02:26,390 --> 01:02:24,319
colorado springs at the public house

1634
01:02:28,470 --> 01:02:26,400
at the alexander

1635
01:02:29,910 --> 01:02:28,480
colorado springs that's awesome i was

1636
01:02:32,150 --> 01:02:29,920
born there

1637
01:02:33,829 --> 01:02:32,160
well very cool i hope you're all finding

1638
01:02:35,349 --> 01:02:33,839
the right people that you can lean on in

1639
01:02:37,670 --> 01:02:35,359
a pinch because it's going to get rough

1640
01:02:39,750 --> 01:02:37,680
out there in the next 18 months

1641
01:02:41,750 --> 01:02:39,760
if you need to extend your network make

1642
01:02:44,069 --> 01:02:41,760
a free event i will mention it on the

1643
01:02:45,510 --> 01:02:44,079
air and your new in the know friends

1644
01:02:47,349 --> 01:02:45,520
will be there

1645
01:02:49,510 --> 01:02:47,359
but that's the show

1646
01:02:51,190 --> 01:02:49,520
i obviously got two more to throw at you

1647
01:02:52,870 --> 01:02:51,200
in just the next nine days so i'm gonna

1648
01:02:53,910 --> 01:02:52,880
get at it and i'll catch you on the next

1649
01:02:57,270 --> 01:02:53,920
one

1650
01:02:59,109 --> 01:02:57,280
part

1651
01:03:01,510 --> 01:02:59,119
your move fire within feelers

1652
01:03:03,750 --> 01:03:01,520
instantaneous igniters and spontaneous

1653
01:03:06,069 --> 01:03:03,760
human combustors

1654
01:03:08,710 --> 01:03:06,079
you're [\h__\h] me

1655
01:03:11,190 --> 01:03:08,720
lucid dreams are so vivid cause you go

1656
01:03:13,829 --> 01:03:11,200
to bed at seven and your brain comes

1657
01:03:16,470 --> 01:03:13,839
alive cause you hate your nine to five

1658
01:03:18,870 --> 01:03:16,480
you wake up with a dread and make sure

1659
01:03:20,950 --> 01:03:18,880
your cats are fed did your brain talk to

1660
01:03:23,910 --> 01:03:20,960
a ghost who moved your coffee and your

1661
01:03:25,589 --> 01:03:23,920
toast as you listen to the higher side

1662
01:03:28,309 --> 01:03:25,599
chats

1663
01:03:31,109 --> 01:03:28,319
you get to your desk and your boss says

1664
01:03:33,510 --> 01:03:31,119
it's a mess and your soul slowly grows

1665
01:03:36,390 --> 01:03:33,520
to a place where nothing grows when you

1666
01:03:38,710 --> 01:03:36,400
think he's not around you insert a seti

1667
01:03:41,349 --> 01:03:38,720
sound

1668
01:03:44,950 --> 01:03:41,359
the om says turn it down and you say

1669
01:03:47,990 --> 01:03:44,960
it's just the higher side chats

1670
01:03:49,990 --> 01:03:48,000
oh do you think you'd be invited

1671
01:03:52,710 --> 01:03:50,000
to bohemia grove

1672
01:03:55,990 --> 01:03:52,720
to a bilderberg club

1673
01:03:58,549 --> 01:03:56,000
oh do you think you'd be invited

1674
01:04:01,349 --> 01:03:58,559
by a rothschild to a party on a

1675
01:04:03,829 --> 01:04:01,359
submarine

1676
01:04:06,069 --> 01:04:03,839
diving down

1677
01:04:08,710 --> 01:04:06,079
to the center of the earth through the

1678
01:04:12,630 --> 01:04:08,720
marianas trench your teeth begin to

1679
01:04:16,630 --> 01:04:12,640
clench from the sulfurius stench

1680
01:04:21,349 --> 01:04:16,640
the mask you're giving doesn't fit

1681
01:04:26,950 --> 01:04:24,069
starting today you'll make plans to get

1682
01:04:29,670 --> 01:04:26,960
away there's no one to hold you down and

1683
01:04:32,549 --> 01:04:29,680
the what if start to drown then you wake

1684
01:04:34,870 --> 01:04:32,559
to the glare of a cold fluorescent stare

1685
01:04:37,270 --> 01:04:34,880
and the light winks at you cause its

1686
01:04:40,309 --> 01:04:37,280
life is almost through but it's holding

1687
01:05:01,910 --> 01:04:40,319
on to quit time just like you

1688
01:05:06,630 --> 01:05:04,710
and that is another show complete

1689
01:05:08,950 --> 01:05:06,640
remember as much as you enjoyed this

1690
01:05:10,710 --> 01:05:08,960
which is just the free first hour i hope

1691
01:05:13,510 --> 01:05:10,720
you'll become a plus member to hear the

1692
01:05:15,430 --> 01:05:13,520
full 2 hour interviews you also can

1693
01:05:17,990 --> 01:05:15,440
engage with other plus members in the

1694
01:05:19,589 --> 01:05:18,000
comments and the forums and you'll find

1695
01:05:21,430 --> 01:05:19,599
your answer to one of the most common

1696
01:05:23,109 --> 01:05:21,440
questions i get which is where can i

1697
01:05:25,029 --> 01:05:23,119
find those cover songs that you use at

1698
01:05:27,270 --> 01:05:25,039
the end of the show well they are free

1699
01:05:29,349 --> 01:05:27,280
downloads for plus members too

1700
01:05:31,190 --> 01:05:29,359
and without plus members i can't hire

1701
01:05:34,150 --> 01:05:31,200
the occasional musician to bring these

1702
01:05:36,069 --> 01:05:34,160
odd cover song ideas to fruition plus

1703
01:05:38,069 --> 01:05:36,079
members are how i'm able to do what i do

1704
01:05:40,870 --> 01:05:38,079
without ads and without the big machine

1705
01:05:42,789 --> 01:05:40,880
being on my back we can fit so much more

1706
01:05:44,710 --> 01:05:42,799
into a two-hour interview and i do my

1707
01:05:45,589 --> 01:05:44,720
best to make it worth your time and

1708
01:05:47,750 --> 01:05:45,599
money

1709
01:05:50,069 --> 01:05:47,760
the conversation only gets deeper

1710
01:05:52,230 --> 01:05:50,079
weirder and more controversial in that

1711
01:05:53,510 --> 01:05:52,240
private hour how could it not the way

1712
01:05:55,710 --> 01:05:53,520
things are going

1713
01:05:57,990 --> 01:05:55,720
but the best way to sign up is at the

1714
01:06:00,630 --> 01:05:58,000
highersidechats.com where new first-time

1715
01:06:03,190 --> 01:06:00,640
subscribers always get a free 7-day

1716
01:06:05,270 --> 01:06:03,200
trial because i'm just that confident

1717
01:06:07,430 --> 01:06:05,280
there's no paypal on the website but if

1718
01:06:09,190 --> 01:06:07,440
you need to use paypal then sign up

1719
01:06:10,390 --> 01:06:09,200
through patreon and you get all the same

1720
01:06:12,470 --> 01:06:10,400
episodes

1721
01:06:14,150 --> 01:06:12,480
our website is a credit or debit system

1722
01:06:17,029 --> 01:06:14,160
but you can also scope out the other

1723
01:06:19,670 --> 01:06:17,039
options like a few various cryptos cash

1724
01:06:21,510 --> 01:06:19,680
or check mail to the p.o box and i'll

1725
01:06:23,270 --> 01:06:21,520
even barter with most people if you have

1726
01:06:25,990 --> 01:06:23,280
your own business and produce something

1727
01:06:27,990 --> 01:06:26,000
nice that my wife or kid or taste buds

1728
01:06:29,990 --> 01:06:28,000
might like but the architects of

1729
01:06:31,670 --> 01:06:30,000
consensus reality have made it clear

1730
01:06:34,069 --> 01:06:31,680
that these themes and topics aren't

1731
01:06:35,910 --> 01:06:34,079
really welcome on the main stage and so

1732
01:06:37,990 --> 01:06:35,920
this is how we secure a little

1733
01:06:40,230 --> 01:06:38,000
counterculture corner for ourselves and

1734
01:06:42,069 --> 01:06:40,240
i hope you'll join plus because that is

1735
01:06:44,630 --> 01:06:42,079
the only way it works

1736
01:06:47,029 --> 01:06:44,640
besides you can cancel any time right on

1737
01:06:49,109 --> 01:06:47,039
your profile page the most common

1738
01:06:51,589 --> 01:06:49,119
concern i hear is people just being

1739
01:06:53,990 --> 01:06:51,599
unsure if thc plus will work with their

1740
01:06:56,789 --> 01:06:54,000
podcast app and the answer is probably

1741
01:06:58,789 --> 01:06:56,799
yes but if not we have several high

1742
01:07:00,950 --> 01:06:58,799
level app recommendations for whatever

1743
01:07:02,309 --> 01:07:00,960
phone you use and the website is made

1744
01:07:03,990 --> 01:07:02,319
for mobile too

1745
01:07:05,670 --> 01:07:04,000
we're trained to tip a waitress for

1746
01:07:07,510 --> 01:07:05,680
bringing us a sandwich but that tip

1747
01:07:10,069 --> 01:07:07,520
doesn't give you access to a second

1748
01:07:11,589 --> 01:07:10,079
sandwich really i'm not asking for any

1749
01:07:13,589 --> 01:07:11,599
more than that and i think i offer a

1750
01:07:15,910 --> 01:07:13,599
better service come get your second

1751
01:07:17,910 --> 01:07:15,920
serving of tasty conspiracy goodness in

1752
01:07:20,549 --> 01:07:17,920
exchange for that small token of your

1753
01:07:22,470 --> 01:07:20,559
appreciation beyond that let it also be

1754
01:07:24,789 --> 01:07:22,480
known that we have grown and survived as

1755
01:07:26,870 --> 01:07:24,799
long as we have by word of mouth

1756
01:07:28,950 --> 01:07:26,880
i don't care so much about social media

1757
01:07:32,069 --> 01:07:28,960
likes or follows but tell the right

1758
01:07:33,750 --> 01:07:32,079
people about thc and not just listeners

1759
01:07:35,829 --> 01:07:33,760
but the high level figures who are

1760
01:07:38,150 --> 01:07:35,839
better suited to sit down with me than

1761
01:07:40,069 --> 01:07:38,160
most other hosts and if you can help me

1762
01:07:42,069 --> 01:07:40,079
with any of these things i can work to

1763
01:07:43,829 --> 01:07:42,079
bring you better shows which is just a

1764
01:07:45,670 --> 01:07:43,839
win-win for both of us

1765
01:07:48,150 --> 01:07:45,680
informative entertaining and

1766
01:07:49,829 --> 01:07:48,160
action-packed it also never hurts to

1767
01:07:51,750 --> 01:07:49,839
thank a guest you liked if you have the

1768
01:07:53,270 --> 01:07:51,760
time either we want them to know people

1769
01:07:55,430 --> 01:07:53,280
are listening so they're willing to come

1770
01:07:57,670 --> 01:07:55,440
back down the road too thank you for